No-Start and then Startup with a smokey cloud (95 E320) - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

TROVERMAN · #1 04-12-2005, 02:32 PM

My 1995 E320 wagon for the first time ever just turned over, started and immediately died, then turned over and over and would not start. Using the accel. pedal when cranking caused the car to start, except for a big cloud of blue / gray smoke for a second. The smoke went away and the car ran fine. Since this episode it is starting normally without any smoke at startup or when revving.

Why?

dtf · #2 04-12-2005, 03:58 PM

The smoke is probably from the extra gas. When was the last time the spark plugs were changed?

TROVERMAN · #3 04-12-2005, 04:32 PM

At around 40k miles, Bosch Platinum 4. Checked them at about 60k miles, burning very cleanly (light brown deposits). Car also has K&N filter, another 40k mile addition, and new Interstate battery; oil changes every 3,000 miles.

benzboy87 · #4 04-13-2005, 09:41 AM

Get rid of the K&N filter. See previous posts. It will cost you a lot more in the long run than what it is worth.

Duke2.6 · #5 04-13-2005, 11:38 AM

Get rid of the Bosch Platinum +4 plugs too and install the proper non-resistor plugs specified by MB.

Buy OE or OE equivalent parts. They are reasonably priced from MB parts specialists like Fastlane.

Duke

gp87210 · #6 04-13-2005, 12:02 PM

Are K&N's bad for a m102 also? Or is it just the newer technology engines?

Kestas · #7 04-13-2005, 04:14 PM

Both. The downside to K&N filters is they let more dust into the engine. On modern cars they can foul the mass airflow sensor (MAF), especially if they're overoiled. Plus I heard it's a pain to clean and reoil the filter.

gp87210 · #8 04-13-2005, 05:26 PM

m102's dont have the electronic MAS, but are there other known problems with using a K&N on a m102?

The reason I ask is I have been interested in a cold air intake for a while which would probably involve a K&N filter and want to know the possible problems that could arise. (other then it not really being "cold air")

Duke2.6 · #9 04-13-2005, 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kestas

Both. The downside to K&N filters is they let more dust into the engine. On modern cars they can foul the mass airflow sensor (MAF), especially if they're overoiled. Plus I heard it's a pain to clean and reoil the filter.

If a K&N dries out it won't be much different than no filter at all, and too much oil can get drawn out and foul hot wire mass airflow sensors. Yet there's no real way to know how much oil is "correct".

You can buy two to six high quality paper filters for the price of one K&N, and you just throw them away every 30K miles. Ever tried to clean an air filter with solvent - what a mess, and there's no way to really know that it is "clean" because you can't see the tiny particles.

Attempting to clean an air filter in solvent to remove particles that can be smaller than 10 microns makes as much sense and trying to clean and reinstall an oil filter. Ask that to a K&N proponents and watch for the deer in the headlights look.

A lot of this highly advertised aftermarket stuff is... dare I say... "junk". Actually it's highly profitable junk!

Whatever you drive, stick with OEM or OEM equivalent replacement parts from reputable major manufacturers, but even that may not be enough. For example, just because it says "Bosch" doesn't mean it's OE quality, especially the Bosch stuff that is sold at the McParts chain stores.

Duke

gp87210 · #10 04-13-2005, 07:33 PM

I agree with you about just leaving stuff the way it is but in the case of the factory airbox, I just can't stand that thing. I will actually sacrifice some power or even reliability in order to remove that thing...the thing is I dont want to go messing up my engine with a K&N filter if they are that bad.

psfred · #11 04-13-2005, 08:28 PM

First, you already have a cold air intake, every Benz every sold that I know of has one (that is, there is no pre-heater on the air intake). Pre-emissions control carbs didn't need them (anti-icing design) and FI doesn't either. Certainly since 1976, when the last carb equiped M110 was sold in the US, anyway. The K&N filter usually provides LESS hp and milage than the factory box, it's a kluge, not an airflow tested design (you don't think they actually SPEND money on engineering when people will by anything, eh?). The factory box is pretty good, and I'd bet good money that an AMG modified engine has something quite similar -- the design provides both high velocity cold air (from the grille) AND some swirl at high speed to dump the dirt out onto the sides of the box, leaving the filter cleaner longer. No K&N I've ever seen, nor anything like it EXCEPT the oil type replacment filter elements, provides anything like that. You'll be astonished when you do the research at how much a 45 degree bend in a four inch pipe can restrict flow. Benz does a very good job of getting high horsepower AND longevity out of their engines (remember, they are still designed to run the Autobahn -- full throttle for hours on end).

Toss the K&N, and hope you haven't fried the engine from dust yet. Make SURE you have the crankcase ventilation hoses correctly installed, as otherwise you can cause the engine to "gulp" oily vapors instead of having them bleed in properly.

I would also check the rotor, they are known to fail in funny ways, depriving you of spark (it's actually the rotor carrier on the M103 that breaks). Often this happens when you've downshifted for acceleration.

gp87210 · #12 04-13-2005, 08:54 PM

You bring up some good points, and although I have not installed it yet I will probably reconsider.

TROVERMAN · #13 04-14-2005, 09:11 AM

I started out with K&N because the air cleaner on my '92 "Classic" Range Rover needed replacing, and the 3.9L V8 put out a measly amount of power compared to what was actually needed to motivate the 6,000lbs it weighs. Hoping for a little more power, I got one from a Land Rover parts dealer, removed the stock canister housing, and put the K&N on. 25,000 miles later, it has caused no problems to the engine or the MAS. We saw a 1-2mpg increase, and maybe a little more power when the throttle was wide open on long hills. Then we put on the E320, still the factory box setup. Occasionally, I take it out and vaccuum the bottom of the box and shake any loose debris off the filter. It seems to stay fairly clean. I have not noticed any more power in the Benz but with a fully loaded car it got 27mpg on a 200 mile trip, and this is the mpg norm on the highway. So, I guess I'm happy with it after 30,000+ miles and no issues.
However, I did read similar posts either here or on the land Rover forum about the MAS issues, and although I was planning on a 3rd K&N for the 4.0SE Range Rover, I opted for the OEM Rover filter instead.

So, who knows? The MAS sensor is a tiny piece of tungsten which actually is heated, cleaning off any excess K&N oil, I would assume.

For the above post, there is not rotor / cap on the m104--distributorless ignition & coil packs.

I have also heard the argument about the Plat 4 plugs--more $$ for something that has wrong resistors, etc.

Well, I have 8 more in the P38 Range Rover, I had 6 in my 96 Volvo 960, all to my satisfaction, and again, after 30k+ miles in the Benz they are burning perfectly and the car runs very smoothly.

aharley1 · #14 04-14-2005, 10:29 AM

I have to disagrre with some of the previous posts. I have used K&N on several vehicles with no adverse results and have many motor-head friends who have as well. They do offer better filtration with increased airflow giving more horsepower. Better breathing is one of the cheapest easiest ways to boost HP. In the early days of biking (60s), we used to polish the intake ports just to get that extra edge.
I actually had my 99 Harley put on a dyno with before & after runs (it's a big thing with bikers at events to get your bike on a dyno run to see what the HP actually is). Mine gained 9 HP from simply switching to a K&N air filter.

TROVERMAN · #15 04-14-2005, 10:43 AM

K&N philosophy is simple--the more air an engine breathes, the stronger the combustion explosion will be=more bhp. What does a supercharger do? It injects air at pressure into the combustion chamber for more power. Of course, the fact is that a K&N is much more effective on an older, carburetted car than one with EFI, because engine mgt controls airflow and power output to some degree.