You guys have a very good point...

Time to attack him with a rebuttal!

Yeah, since Ford or (GM?) bought Volvo, I kind of lost my faith in them since many of the companies like SAAB for example have lost their own uniqueness and sometimes quality...

But Volvo was failing since their reputation was bad... people had this sterotype in their head that all Volvos and boxy monstrosities. Nobody wants a box to drive right? (I do! :D ) So Ford "saved" them... The 850 was the last boxy car, the S70/V70 got better.... but I guess it was too late.

I don't know much about how bad SAAB was before Ford bought them, but I always heard this phrase: "In the morning, you have to put your head on the steering wheel and SAAB (sob) to get it to start..."

I don't understand why Oldsmobile crashed and burned, I think maybe they suffered the same fate that Cadilliac would have it... (All the grandpas were passing away, so nobody wanted a "classic" designed car...)

We own a Volvo S90, I drove it for a while before I traded cars with my dad, I enjoyed the airplane like steering and the power... (188HP/201TQ)

I got to sit in an S40 today, the interior felt solid, I really liked some of it features too, but I wonder how this car will be in about 50K miles.

I can now understand why somebody would like a new car, all the problems are gone, all the bushings are tight, the engine is in peak performance, everything is just all new, clean, and perfectly functional.

I wonder how somebody who has been driving used cars for years would react to a new car.... Woud they convert, or would they take it back to the dealership and open the newspaper? I guess it depends, like you guys said, if they want a new car, they will like it.

But I am 17 (with a perfect driving record! :) ), and if I drove a new car, the insurance would kill my dad, I give him my Best Buy work checks, but still, $1000 a month is really hard to handle. With me drivng a $3000/16 year old car, he only pays $200. So that is one advantage, but only if you are young.

The reason I fell in love with the 300E is since it was so remarkable, I drive a car that was worth $45K back in the day, it has features that were ahead of its time, I guess you just have to really have a love for older cars to appreciate them.

My brother also pointed out that his Volvo has better safety features and better fuel economy, He is surely right, my only airbag is expired (expired on 9/1999). He is going to have like 8 airbags, my car takes premium and gets decent MPG, his car takes unleaded and gets great MPG... I can't beat him there....

Old car values ...
 

I agree that people buy new cars because they want them ... or "want something with a warranty". The warranty on everything but Hundai (sp) is relatively short, and I'm sure that there's plenty that the Hundai warr doesn't cover. The deal with the Volvo is that 2.5 yrs after you get it, you're on your own --- that's when the real quality or lack of it starts to show.

Another way to look at whether or not you're doing OK is to amortize your car on paper ---- I use $.15/mile ---- little enough at today's prices --- and see how that squares up with with money spent on purchase and maintenance. I would buy fuel and insurance for any car (though an old car with no collision is a lot cheaper than a financed new ride), so they are not in the equation. In the end, the amount I beat $.375 by, counting fuel & insurance, is how well I've beat the system. Actually, $37.5 is not nearly enough ---- maybe 15 yrs ago Hertz stated (I'm sure they do these figures every year) that buying a new car and driving it perhaps 50,000 miles cost $.50/mile --THEN. Savvy businessmen therefore buy a nice car just for business, and deduct every cent spent, incl washes & waxes. If you're in a higher bracket (than I am), you can do better that way than buying an old Mercedes , doing all you own work, and using WVO (and deducting $.375).

Applying the $.15 amortization to my 240D:
purchase -- ---------$2000
tires & 1 ball joint ---- 760
parts to date (incl most 600
of the parts to rebuild
the front end, which I
haven't done yet)
Total $3360
My miles to date - 15,000
15,000x$.15= $2250
Real cost of the car = $1110
Miles to break-even ---7400 --- about 6 months' worth.
Amount I can spend on maint after that with a clear conscience ---- about $2250/year. I can replace a lot of engine mounts for that -- even put in a new clutch -- and still be 'way ahead of the new car rat race of financing, trading. All they have is better seats (I'm getting on that soon) & better acceleration (so does a Peterbuilt). Let's see the brother amortize the Volvo this way - $30,000 @$.15/ mile = 200,000 miles .....with no other maintenance? Even with oil changes & fan belts his break even -- best case -- will be probably 250,000. Ours will be much sooner -- mine is a tenth of that ...

Just to clarify:

The term "Upside down" more commonly refers to the phenominon that is experienced with EVERY new car as soon as you drive it off the lot -- that you owe more for it than you could get if you sold it.

It usually takes a couple of years before an owner is "out from under" the payments on a vehicle. That is to say that at that point, they could sell it and either break even, or walk away with a small amount of cash.

People who trade-in every few years (or lease) are paying the highest cost/mile. But for whatever reason, having that new car is important to them.

Also: Ford owns Volvo, GM owns Saab.

Jeff Pierce

Hence why GAP insurance has become so popular

One cannot value the satisfaction and pride of ownership. I speak of pride for my mb's. They aren't perfect, but nothing is...

It seems that Modern America male is conditioned to buy that Ram, Z71 or the best selling F150. Once they purchase said example of modern american advertising, they begin to modify it so it is seperate from all the other Rams, '71s and 150's.

There is nothing so scary to see how advertising tells us collectively to buy this, covet that, yada yada yada.

Easy there... I make my living on advertising. ;)

You're right though. It is truely amazing what people will pay good money for... and with a smile on their faces!

Jeff

I have been debating this very issue internally since I bought my 89 560SEL.

Paid 3k for it, put in brakes, major tune up, now it looks like it needs a valve job. Lets say for year one I'm at $5000.

Year two, body work and interior upgrade - $5000. After that, normal maintenance. Transmission seems to be fine, but you never know. Possible $2500 rebuild down the road.

But assuming I don't need a tranny soon, if I keep the car for 5 years, that's $166 a month, plus the cost of routine maintenance, which I would have anyway.

My 560 was the top-of-the-line luxury sedan when it came out - it is built and engineered like no other car I have ever owned, and certainly like no car that has come after it. Its look is classic and timeless, I get all kinds of compliments on it, and it drives like the great car it is.

I travel a lot, and rent all kinds of different cars to get a feel for them. I rented a new Volvo Cross Country wagon - it was nice, but the visability was crap do to the rake of the roof and the pillars. The new Jags? You can keep 'em - glorified Tauruses now. SUVs - never liked any of them (more of a style issue - I don't like climbing up into them and they all feel "wrong" to me as I'm driving them).

I love my Benz and taking care of it has become a hobby to me, so the money spent is no different than golf, or racing, or gardening/landscaping, etc. I know people who go to Atlantic City, Connecticut and Vegas to gamble, lose thousands of dollars, yet come home happy saying - "what price do you put on having a good time?"

I'm having a great time in my 126 MB, the cost of ownership is justifiable.

The power of advertising is simply amazing! They made the average Joe think they need big 4wd trucks loaded with tons of luxury gear. The SUV is a creation of marketing.

Well said, gilwave! I too faced a similar decision recently with my '90 300E. Although I decided to trade it in for a somewhat newer '98 E320 I didn't seriously consider other cars. When folks asked me why I would buy a 7 year old car with 80K+ miles on it my reasons were similar to yours. I would rather by a somewhat mature Mercedes that was top of the line when it came out than a newer but lesser car. To me, it still seems like a steal to get a $45,000 Mercedes for half the price of a new Honda just because it's got a few miles on it.

Yeah, it's a hobby, but where to stop?
 

I bought a 1985 Euro 500SL in 1999. I have put 33,000 miles on it and itis at 128,000 miles. The car is fun but I paid $7000, in disrepair and have put another $5000 in parts and $1700 in professional service. It still needs lots of things to make it right. I do all my own service now and the next job is lifters. Three mechanics say to replace them all. The parts are $720 plus shims. Bottom line is that I could have made five years of payments on a new car. Not a Benz but something. It is an emotional issue. My SL has the AMG package and looks so cool that I had to have it. I am cheap and want to drive a nice car for cheap money. From a monitary standpoint it is a crap shoot. If you buy a used one and it does not have major problems you can drive it a long time for low dollars, then dump it when a big repair comes up. But if you buy a bad one and fix it all the time it coud cost rediculous money. Auto repair is my new hobby, since I bought this Benz. Now I work on all our cars but I practically gave up golf and martial arts because of the time (and money to a lesser degree). I love mine but a good financial decision, it is not.

Sorry to hear about all the problems you are having with your 500SL Steve :(

The repiar history on my car made it easier to decide to buy it - one owner, all paperwork intact, all major work done at the proper intervals.

I am looking now for a used diesel - 300SD, SDL, or newer 350 - so I have to be doubly careful I don't buy somebody elses headach/money pit.

-g

This sounds like the discussion we had before we fixed the AC in my daughter's 190DT. Even my machanic was initially reluctant to put that much into the old car.

It cost $3600 for basically a full rebuild plus two fans. What clinched it was asking my daughter if she would buy this car for $3600 with a working AC, the answer was yes.

Also since my father-in-law bought it we really did'nt have any money in it.

cars
 

Benz300 what you ought to consider is perhaps calculating the future life left in the car, its overall interior and exterior condition etc.

Calculate how much you may spend in keeping the major stuff going.
Find out what the same car can cost you if you find one in better condition with maint. papers.
Buy that one and keep the current one for a parts car. assuming you have space and DIY. Or just sell it and recoup some money. :)

Just a thought.

Book Review: "The Gold-Plated Porsche"
 

I'm reviving this thread to say that I just had a chance to read "The Gold-Plated Porsche" by Stephan Wilkinson, former Car & Driver editor, which is mentioned in this thread, and which is a real fun read.

The preface starts with the point that either you get it or don't - why someone would spend two years and $70K to refurbish a Porsche 911 that will never be worth more than $20K.

For me personally, I just don't value stuff I just spent money on, in the same way as I value stuff that I spend money, time, effort and spilled blood on.

That's just me.... Or maybe I'm just cheap. Anyhow, I too recommend this book.

this logic by your brother reminds me of the old steve martin saturday night live skit on how to make a million. it goes like this "first, you take a million dollars........................."

so do you have the $30k? if not why worry about what your brother thinks. is he trying to help you or just beat you down?

These old cars after about 10 or 12 years have depreciated all they will. if you buy one you can own it for the cost of the maintenance and sell it for what you paid for it. i personally wouldnt want to drive a civic, do you?

extensive restorations wont pan out but basic maintenance and repairs work fairly well especially if you do a lot of it yourself.

tom w