Anyone done business with chillywillies - R12 seller ?
 

I responded to another post here just below this one. Asked Larry Bible where he gets R-12 online.

I looked for this product awhile back on the WEB and wasn't impressed with the price online vs. what I can get locally.

Just a min. ago I stumbled across -> http://www.chillywillies.com

12 can cases for $149.00 + $9.95 shipping - that comes out to $13.25 a can - about half what they get locally for a single can.

Their WEB site claims 4-6 weeks for delivery. That issue and the price has me a bit leary.

Anyone here know these guys to be legit?

Thanks.

PS - again - not interested in eBay sellers - too many thieves in that world.

After looking at the ChillyWillies site, I can understand your hesitancy.

No phone number, only check or money order, 4-6 weeks delivery, way-low prices.

I'd feel safer with an eBay seller.

But the ChillyWillies name is cute.

I checked around with my local suppliers this morning. It's been awhile. Most no longer carry R-12 and the one who does gets $31.50 for a 12 oz. can that has to be ordered.

The local parts people I've spoken with indicated there's just not much demand for it anymore.

I found another site on the WEB -> http://www.refrigerantsales.com

12 can case for $250.00 - includes delivery - takes about 3-5 days. That comes out to $20.83 a can. They have an 800 # and claim to sell new Dupont R-12. Who knows?

The refrigerantsales folks are good people, I've ordered from them before. Good product, good customer service, recommended without hesitation.

- JimY

The only way anybody can sell NEW Dupont r12 is if it's either stock over 10 years old or if it's bootlegged from overseas.

Kestas:

I went further into the refrigerantsales.com WEB site and found a section claiming they sell either Motorcraft or A/C Delco R-12? Who knows?

Jim - good to hear you're please with them.

R-12 is still produced in other countries like RACON in Mexico - which closed it's florocarbon plant in Wichita and moved it south. I used to cross the border into Mex and buy virgin Dupont branded R-12 and bring it back into US (only 128 oz at a time) You did need your 608 cert. The US does not make policy for the world.

I know r-12 is produced legally in many other countries, but considering how stringent the laws are on manufacture and use of r-12, I'm surprised that the US would let you import ANY of that refrigerant. I heard rumors that r-12 is third or fourth on the list of black market goods making their way into the US.

What did it cost on the other side of the border? Perhaps this is a side business many people are doing by getting the freon legally across the border then selling it on eBay.

The last time I crossed the boarder was + 3 years ago - it ran about $4 a can US I do remember they were 10 oz cans and would purchace a dozen.
R-12 is blackmarket in US would assume it is there also. I would buy from a Mexican "Autozone" type store and no worries of it bieng bogus. Just like prescriptions purchaced in Mexico - if you have a note (prescription or license) it's OK

It's my understanding that bringing R-12 acroos the border is illegal. That wouldn't stop the guys on eBay and who knows where they get whatever it is they're selling.

I've seen R134a cans painted with R-12 on them. The tap on top of a 134a can is a dead giveaway.

Well the Border patrols obviously don't give two hoots about stopping Illegals from crossing......Maybe thats becasue they are focusing their efforts on the evil R-12 Freon.........Drugs and terrorists be damned....

Could not help but notice that you really hammer on eBay. You have a bad experience with a seller there or something??

I have indeed.

eBay is an unsupervised playground for thieves, not that thieves ever had such a thing.

The real frustration comes in when you try to get eBay involved. Good luck. They give you all sorts of non-sense, suggesting that you wait awhile longer, be patient, weeks after the con has escaped with your money.

My wife and I ended up going to VISA for a reversal. Then it got interesting. Pay Pal emailed me and said that if I was reimbursed by VISA, my Pay Pal priviledges would be suspended.

In other words, Pay pal was going to took the hit, but wanted me to. Sounds extortionary to me.

I got my $$ back from VISA and told Pay Pal where to shove it.

If you've had success with eBay, more power to you, but don't be surprised if you get screwed and don't be surprised by eBay's care-less attitude about the whole thing.

PS - I found a scam artist selling "R-12" on eBay. Check out the URL below. Is this "R-12"? I don't think so.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=7973384818&category=46094

About 6 or 8 weeks ago I bought a 30 pound jug of R12 from refrigerantsales. The price included shipping and it was on my porch in about 3 days as I recall. They are a trustworthy group.

Hope this helps,

No, that doesn't look like any R12 I ever saw...

True...but this is the exception...not the rule
Alas...true. Sorry to say, this is where you MUST use feedback to help your bidding/buying decision. If some guy is new to ebay, and has none, or very few feedback...beware. But if someone has been around a year or more..and has over 50 feedbacks, and 98% or better, then you can be pretty sure that your transaction will work out just fine. Also, if you paid via paypal, and you have not received you item within two weeks...file a claim with paypal, not ebay, and paypal will go after your money for you. Does not always work, but it works better than ebay. Paypal gets real pissed if you file a claim with your credit card company, and will cancel your account if you do. So, first file your claim within two weeks...and then if paypal does not come through for you...go through your credit card company to get your money back. Then give paypal the middle finger for not backing you in the first place.
I have around 500 feedbacks. Of the 500...I have left, and been given, some 4 negative feedbacks. Considering the number of transactions...I would say that is pretty good. My experience has been that most ebayers, buyers and sellers, are good people. With millions of sellers on ebay, you are bound to run into a bad one every now and then.
Okay...this is a tough one. I have never seen R-12 like this either...but I have not seen R-12 anything in 15 years. I do not know this seller...but this seller has 203 positive feedbacks, is 100% positive, and has been around on ebay for over 3 years. Some of these feedbacks are from buyer of this R-12. Hard to call someone with those numbers a scammer without actually getting that R-12 and verifying that it is bunk.

Hope this helps

We approached both EBay and Pay-pal before pursuing the issue with VISA. I wrote countless emails regarding the problem to both entities and got nothing but run-around. This is why we went to VISA. EBay and Pay-Pal refused to deal with the issue.

I said it before; I'll say it again. Pay-Pals approach is extortionary.

Regarding the scam I pointed out. I've purchased untold cans of R-12 over the years. No R-12 can was ever designed like the ones in the eBay thumbnail provided by Brewtoo. If you look closely enough, you'll realize that the design is exactly the same as used on tire sealer cans and that's likely what this stuff is. You mention that the guy listing this stuff has many satisfied customers. That's exactly how it was when my wife and I got burned. How hard would it be to get a bunch of your pals to write in favorable reports?

Sorry Saint...your post doesn't help a bit. Enjoy your life on eBay.

Tire inflator goop
 

Looks a little like "Fix A Flat" Hey maybe if you have a leak in your system, it will seal it good, real good. Dont even thinkaboutit

R-12 seller on EBAY is legit
 

I did some research for the forum (I have both the license and 45# of R-12 + 25# of R-22 in personal stock).

The seller has recevied positive feedback for several sales of R-12 both in 30# cylinders and the small cans. One purchaser was not satisfied with the product (no reason given) but received full refund.

Contrary to earlier doom and gloom forecasts, lots of R-12 is available legally in the U.S. Since it is illegal to operate a leaking system, it is much more cost effective to repair and refill with R-12 than convert to R-134a or something else. Say 4 cans @ $15= $60 vs 4 cans of R-134 @ $4= $16. The $44 'savings' doesn't begin to buy the flushing chemicals, seals, hoses, etc needed for R134a.

Over the last two years, I've bought three cases of R12 with no problems at all. There are plenty of vendors, and it is indeed legal to buy and sell - assuming you have the license (I do). However, I can't buy the 30# tanks, but wouldn't want to anyway. YMMV

Now that it has been 10 years or more that R12 has been banned from use in automobiles we don't hear much about the ozone hole.

Is it closed? Did it clear up like a teenager's acne after their losing their virginity? (Remember that wive's tale?)

Where do we stand with the ozone hole? I bet it's still there, I bet it's just as big as it was one decade ago.

How could this be? Didn't the ban of R12 stop the loss of ozone and the eradication of all skin cancer?

Or could it be that the ozone layer is not stable, it does change through history (like the global temperature) and that R12 didn't have a damn thing to do with a "hole over the south pole?

You know...I just sat here typing for about 30 minutes of why your statement about ebay is close minded. When I got to the end, I realized how stupid it is of me to try to convince someone of something once they have made up their mind.

So, you can base your opinion of ebay, paypal, and this seller, on your one bad experience...hope it makes you happy. I am a buyer on ebay...not a seller. I buy for business and personal use. I base my opinion on a few years experience with ebay, and lots of transactions.

Member since: May-29-01
Feedback Score: 347
Positive Feedback: 99.4%
Members who left a positive: 349
Members who left a negative: 2
All positive feedback received: 491

So for me...I will continue to enjoy my life on ebay
And...I no longer care if this helps

Kebowers,

I can tell that you haven't bought any 134 this year. The days of $4 per can are LONG GONE. It is now about $9 a can making your point even stronger.

134 prices are going up and 12 prices are coming down. It has been a long time since I believed that converting a 12 system to 134 was a good thing, but now it is really stupid IMHO.

Have a great day,

Back to my original question - anyone done business with chillywillies??

I did some research. The address listed at the web site has been any number of businesses in the last year of so. It was bought by a Jadco Properties in Dec. 2004. I cannot locate this company to see if they've leased it to a Chilly's Refrigeration.

I did send an email to the emailid listed at the chillywillies web site Tues. afternoon. It's now Fri. morning and I've heard nothing.

Considering they have no phone number to call, you would think they'd be more responsive to email.

I suspect these clowns are simply sitting there waiting for envelopes to pour in with $$ inside. You're told to wait 4-6 weeks which makes no sense. refrigerationsales.com - Colorado told me 3-5 days to get an R-12 shipment.

Scratch chillywillies.

Hey Larry...you really seem up on your refrigerants. Are the Hydrocarbon type refrigerants like Enviro-safe any good? Reading their sales pitch, you wonder why we still need ice cubes :)

Now I understand why Larry ignored, or at least didnt answer my question about Hydrocarbon refrigerants. I just got through reading that entire 16 page thread about R-12.

"Snake oil?"

Search is your friend :D