Chassis lube question

[al parker]

I've often heard that some synthetic lubes (grease-gun grease) will not mix with lithium and petroleum lubes. Does anyone here have any knowledge of brands or types that will not mix?
Thanks...Al

[autozen]

What are you trying to lube?

[Kestas]

Most synthetic automotive greases are lithium-based.

[al parker]

Autozen, I have a '93 300e and an '85 190D that I service regularly. My question on the lube is for the zerks on the ball joints, steering parts, etc.
I also have farm equipment and other vehicles (phords, chivvies, chryslers,
and a Jag or two). I hate to have a special grease gun for each vehicle so I was looking for products that would work for all or most of the vehicles and equipment.
Thanks
Al

[autozen]

First of all there is nothing to lube on the two MBs you mentioned unless you special ordered them with lube fittings which I don't think you can do. Secondly I think you are making too much of this and fretting for nothing. Go down to the automotive store and get some tubes of good old chassis grease. Since there is such fearce competition in many markets today, MFGs are making up advertising gimmicks to sell a virtually unchanged product. It probably started in the 50s when everyone had a blender on the kitchen counter. One company got a slick idea to throw a diode inside that did nothing, but they could then call it SOLID STATE. Before synthetic grease came on the scene, wheel bearings have been packed in GOOD OLD GREASE and all the wheel bearings in the world have travelled billions of trouble free miles.

[Kestas]

This may help: Grease compatability chart

If you want an all-around premium grease that's easily available, use Mobil synthetic.

If you need something more affordable, considering the volume of grease you'll be using, you'll do fine with any lithium-based, NLGI-2 grease with EP additives. It should state it as such on the container. It is available almost anywhere grease is sold over the counter.

[al parker]

Kestas,
Thanks for the link, that was exactly what I was looking for.
Al

[autozen]

Al,
Sorry I couldn't provide the chart you were seeking. I actually downloaded a copy in case someone asks me the same question again before I die. That chart may be very important to the maintenance supervisor of a huge production facility, but being pragmatic, I don't see the need for someone who is going to grease a few cars and tractors. My first question would be, how do you know what grease is already in the fittings you intend to lube? If you have carefully documented it, why change? I just serviced a wheel bearing yesterday. I cleaned the spindle and hub thoroughly and repacked it with gooood old wheel bearing grease. It should be good for another 100,000 miles. Call me an old fa*t, but I just don't see the point. Now if I worked for NASA and had to lube the tractor that hauls the shuttle from the VAB to the launch pad, that may be a different story. That thing carries an incredible load at walking speed on a road bed that is several feet thick. EP grease would be called for in that application.

[psfred]

Mobil 1 or Valvoline synthetic is probably the best stuff out there -- otherwise, as stated.

You only have zerks on those cars if someone installed them. On the W108, on the other hand.....

Peter

[Kestas]

For wheel bearings. "good old grease" is fine as long as this grease is rated NLGI 2 with EP additives and is rated for elevated temperature duty because of the heat from braking. 100K is max for wheel bearings. I believe 90K is specified. I use 30K intervals.

[Kestas]

????

Basic bearing metallurgy hasn't changed in over 60 years.

Grease fomulations have improved over the years. They haven't improved to the point that they are more harmful than old greases for same application. What basis do you use to make this statement? All greases I know of are backward compatible. In fact, they are now formulating EP additives that don't attack the bearing metal at high temperatures.

Are you talking about slippage on the bore mount surfaces? I have yet to see the choice in grease affect this phenomenon. Again, what do you base this statement on?

What's wrong with synthetics in the rear differential for ANY vehicle?

Buckwheat, what basis do you use to make ANY of your statements?

[autozen]

Kestas,
When I said good old grease, I of course meant good old wheel bearing grease. I certainly wouldn't recommend wagon axle grease.I was simply trying to say I didn't think it was worth the money to buy rocket ship grease. Servicing the bearings at 30k is over kill, but it is your car and your time, so whatever floats your boat works for me. I am on the other end of the extreme. When a bearing starts growling, I take a look at it. A wheel bearing will usually complain for a long time before it fails. In 30 years I've only seen one go from making noise to total failure in less than 40 miles.

[autozen]

Are there any TRIBOLOGISTS in the room?

[Kestas]

Is this the same research and engineering staff second to none which gave us wiring insulation that crumbles to nothing?... for three models years?

For all the years I've been reading this board and others, this is the first I've heard of the caveats you’ve mentioned.

I don’t just follow sexy advertisement. Please realize that I am a bearing metallurgist who works very closely with a lube specialist for a major bearing company. Our company has also been around 100 years. My colleague (STLE member) and I have seen all kinds of bearing and lube problems, in industry and on this board, but none of the abovementioned situations. I suppose you’ve seen more damaged bearings than I have, and correctly attributed their cause of failure?

I don’t see how races and seals - especially very tight MB races - can loosen by using grease other than the manufacturer’s grease. I don’t know how you base this statement... experience from a single event? Most bearing failures after service are from improper or abusive installation methods, often from improper seating, which causes clearances to open up during use. Nobody in our company has ever complained of a lube being too slippery. The reason other greases aren’t specified is usually because the manufacturers simply don’t feel it’s worth the time, money, and effort to have their greases qualified by for approval by a car maker. Just because a product isn’t on somebody’s approved product list doesn’t mean it won’t function satisfactorily.

Why hasn’t Pennzoil passed on their warning beyond their lube stations? They don’t seem to mind the DIYer buy and use their synthetic gear lube wherever they please with no warning and let them ruin their cars. Why hasn't this information been passed on from MB to the DIYers? There are a lot of people on this board that want to do what's best for their vehicles and may possibly be harming their vehicles.

It’s not just the oils and sulfurs that provide a protective coating on gears, but the zinc compounds, which are present in synthetic lubes. MB would be hard pressed to prove someone used synthetic in the differential to deny warranty unless the owner told them so. Again, nobody has been reporting widespread degradation of their units from using modern lubes. Otherwise there’d already be a long line of people crying at the local dealers.

[Ralph69220d]

That was a good back and forth exchange. I have my own thinking on the matter, which happens to be the modern lubricants including partial and full synthetic oils, differential grease, bearing grease are improvements and perform at least as well as older products, sometime's significantly better. Overall, and I don't mean to be insulting to anyone, but a forum member who is a metallurgist and looks at bearings and races and seals and gears, etc. one should pay heed to until if and when the time come's he is proven wrong, which obviously take's ten's of thousand's of hours designing methodologies to test hypotheses and then to repeat and repeat the tests. But, both of you gentlemen raised a good discussion of the issue(s) involved. I think that is precisely what this forum, and this thread in particular, is for. Thanks. again.