Not to go off-topic, but this one hits home. Depreciation on the Phaeton is admittedly abysmal (and it'll get worse since VW announced it won't be imported to the US after 2006), but like many W140s, no Phaeton ever went out the door at list price. I leased mine with $0 down and a lower monthly payment than an E Class or A6 (and it's far superior), and most who bought got huge discounts - a couple of weeks ago a Boston dealer was advertising a new '05 Phaeton V8 with a $73k MSRP at $20k off list - a lot of the imputed depreciation is coming out of the dealer's hide, or VWoA's, not the first owner.

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81 300SD
08 MDX Tech
93 525i

05 F650GS

That very believable....I knew some families(not mine I assure you) in Texas when I lived there that bought new MB's in the early and late 90's and they gave huge discounts....as I recall something like...$8000 off a 93 300D 2.5 turbo....$12,000 off a 91 560SEL and $13,000 off a 98 S500 are some transactions that I remember the buyers telling me the stats of
Honestly from what I see the 220 is going fall the same way..they seem to be 50% off after 3 years...but hey again its a great deal if you like the car.
I don't know anyone who has owned a 220 since day one ..just those who have leased and fell under the full maintenance umbrella and turned the car in after the lease was up

Warren
1992 300SD(sold)
2000 BMW 740I

I know a Dr who has owned a 2000 S430 since day one. I think he is up to 40k miles now and couldn't be more happy with the car. He has never had an issue. His major complaint is the new water based paint is to soft. I bought my 300SD from him and he prefered the harder paint on the older cars.

My friends dad has had his S600 for almost two years and he hasn't had a problem, other then an egr breaking when he first got it. Granted the car isn't driven much.

I just helped another friend buy an S320 and it seems to be in great shape. The jury is still out on whether it will be a reliable car.

I think their is a lot of hype about these cars. They are not as bad as people make them out to be. Think about it happy owners are not on the tech forum complaining about how trouble free their S class has been.

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1999 SL500
1969 280SE
2023 Ram 1500
2007 Tiara 3200

FWIW, I paid $13k for my 97 C230 18 months ago, and that was with 61k and 2/100 Starmark. I thought that was a helluva deal, especially estimating that the warranty saved me 6-8k in repair and disgnostic costs.

As of now, trade-in is around $5000, and in 1st qtr '05, it was over $7k. That's a huge drop in 8 months for a cheap car. And this is the simplest car mechanically that they made that year.

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former: 83 300D, 97 C230, 93 400E

current: 08 C300 Luxury , 92 500SL

I beleive aswell that the "hype" esp on forums about the W140s is a bit much....I recently spoke to a local MB mechanic and said they are not bad at all.

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99 C43
98 S420
99 C230K
01 C240

I'm not sure I'd go as far as calling it hype, because some folks have had real problems. But, I think that's true of any car.
Everyone seems to call out the evaporator failure rate as a problem, yet I've never seen any statistical data. Granted, several of the techs on this forum have mentioned it as a problem with W140's so I'm happy to accept their word for that. I guess I have been lucky in that regard.
Having said that, what is the real criticism? Is it the high labor time/rate that runs the bill up to a couple of grand to change the evap?
Mercedes isn't unique in that regard. After changing the heater core and evap in a mid 80's Audi 5000, I fear no heater box. I think the spare tire is the only thing I didn't have to disassemble.
As far as having to take stuff apart, look at the procedure for changing a heater core for a mid 90's plain Ford Taurus. The whole dash, console, seats, etc has to come out. Sound familiar? Around here, many of those Taurus have bypassed heaters as a cheap fix.
Anyway, if you do your own work, the evap for a W140 isn't all that expensive and is available from several aftermarket places.
It really comes down to what you expect when you buy one of these cars. If you think a ten year old automobile will be as reliable as a new car, you'll probably be disappointed. If you think a car with triple the complexity will be as trouble free as a basic grocery getter, you'll also be disappointed. And the bills from the dealership will kill you.
Want to see problems with super reliable Hondas, etc? Go read forums on the web for those makes. As someone pointed out, you read about problems on forums like this.
I do know that there are a number of folks on this forum with W140's that love them and intend to keep them. You can put me to that list.
One of the reasons I've been able to keep mine is all the valuable advice and pointers I've gotten from the good folks on this site.
Many thanks to all who have helped me over the last few years.

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KenP

1996 S500 W140 Coupe

Geez, real men don't NEED A/C. But if you must have it, save the $2-4,000 you would spend to the replace the evap. core and buy a $500 beater with cold A/C for the summer months.

couple of grand?..I would love to know where you can get that done,reliably, for a couple of grand...they compltely disassemble the dash...and put it back together again...and my personal thought it...why buy an aftermarket product(evap core) when the money you saved is liable to cost you another $2500.00?...by the way my personal car had the job done twice...once at Mercedes of Morristown NJ in 1997 shortly before I bought it and the second time at Crown Mercedes in 2000
and by the way I called MB Zone rep and questioned how this major issue could happen a second time and he said...oh well..it was done 3 years ago..its an old car and its not costing you anything!!
By the way I am sure both MB zone reps that I dealt with in the years I owned this car remember me and this 1992 300SD. They never seemed to understand why I was calling and complaining when I was not incurring any of the repair expenses.

I think some of the later 140 cars(97+) are much better( however resale is not reflecting it I guess)..After patronizing the same MB dealer for about 5-6 years I was able to see a cross section of the cars they were always fixing...btw I don't live in a luxury market where the sold a boattload of 140's to start with

Don't get me wrong...I loved the one I owned..it is still may favorite car that I have owned...and due to the warranty I had anything that was broken..out of spec etc was replaced at the local MB dealer...however had the $20,000 worth of repairs come out of my pocket I am sure I would be singing another tune.
And by the way 3-4K bills from the dealer are very common on these cars....check with your local dealer...they love the 140's...they had to be a great moneymaker for the MB dealer



Warren
1992 300SD(sold)
2000 BMW 740I

I know of a very good shope in NJ that will do the evap job for about $2k, maybe a little less. I can get their contact info if you would like. The aftermarket cores are usually better. I'd find an aftermarket all copper core if I ever needed to do one.

It is pretty easy to rack up $20k in bills from a dealer with any MB. I remember looking at a 420SEL that the dealer just did $8k worth of work on. It wasn't that much really.

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1999 SL500
1969 280SE
2023 Ram 1500
2007 Tiara 3200

If I remember correctly, my MB tech (worked for MB for a few years) does them for $2700CDN. That is using the standard evap core. He recommends spending the additional $ (not sure how much but I think a few hundred) to buy the all copper core so you will never have to do this job again.

So figure US$2300 for the job at today's exchange rate. He mentioned 22-23 hours for the job off the top of his head.

He's done a ton of these (including his own car) and almost has the process memorized.. He doesn't seem to think this is such a huge issue at all.. He said "most of the cars have had them done by now (especially the earlier ones), and it's not too big of a risk you run on a one-time repair that MIGHT need to be done"

Neal

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'83 300SD 335,000km (207k) mi SOLD
'87 560SL 163,000km (101k mi) SOLD
'86 300SDL 356,000km (220k mi) SOLD
'92 500SEL 250,000km (155k mi) SOLD
'90 300SL 140,000km (87k mi) SOLD
'01 S430 260,000km (161k mi) SOLD
'03 SL500 167,000km (104k mi) SOLD
'07 S550 4MATIC 235,000km (146k mi) SOLD
'07 GL320 CDI 4MATIC 348,000km (215k mi)
'13 GL350 BlueTec 4MATIC 170,000km (105k mi)
'14 SL550 72,000km (43k mi)

22 - 23 hours for the evap on the 140? how does it compare to the job on the 124? I mean, theres a few DIY-ers on this board who have taken the dash out of the 124 to replace the core, anyone here ever do a 140 on their own? MB's are usually engineered well so that theres only one way for things to go back together - I would think that with the right manual and this forum that someone could tackle the evap in a long weekend. Maybe I'm wrong...I dunno.

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Daily Driver: 02 E430 4MATIC
In the family: '03 E500 // '04 ML500 // 64 220SE

i believe the dealers are quoting around 15-16 hours for the W124 evap.

As I recall the warranty company paid for 28 hours of labor( per their labor book) to do this job when mine was done on the SD back in 2000...althought I think the tech did the actual job in about 20 hours...as I recall it took him 2 full days...however he also had to replace the climate control push button unit and a couple of lights that illuminated the temp gauge in the dash and one of the dash vents as I recall.

My thoughts on a job this intense is I would be very careful about who I let tought the car. I have seen the complexity of all that wiring that has to come out of the 140 to get to the evap core..and my thoughts would be if the dealer screwed up you always had the zone rep(whom I had several conversations with while I owned that car) that was going to take care of you ..perhaps at MB's expense ay another dealer if necessary

I was was very anal about the car and everything had to work 100% and to MB spec..maybe that why my repair costs were so high.
In fact my dealer tech used to tell me that I was a little too picky to be driving a car that old

But honestly whomever owns that car now should be enjoying as it should have had every bug/update done. My tech used to tell me that many of the parts that he replaced,including the engine, had many changes compared to the failed part that was removed.
Would I own another 140?...probably not...its not that I don't think they are great cars I think I honesly like the handling of the new 220 of the 7 series car better...although honestly I have never driven another car that offered the ride and comfort of the 140 car...and who knows as inexpensive as they are getting to be..I might consider it again....
I paid $25k for the 300SD ,that I owned, in 1998 and it was a one owner car with full MB dealer records(sold and serviced at the same place) and it was the right color,silver. These days you can get a 1999 S500 with 45K one owner miles for less than that. That still amazes me


Warren
1992 300SD(sold)
2000 BMW 740I
Columbus Ohio

I'm told by a local MB tech that he can do an W140 evap in about half the time that that dealer charges. He says its not particularly hard, but it is labor intensive cuz of all the stuff that has to be moved. He also says that once you've done one, the work goes considerably faster. I know that on my car, there are things that have to be done "just so", or it will take forever. So, I'd agree, this is probably a money maker for the dealers. I'm sure its not the only one.
I've not done mine, and with any luck, may never have to. But, after studying this car in depth, I'd much rather do this job than chase a random electrical gremlin in the powertrain data bus. Grab a case of beer, take a week off from work, and spin some wrenches. If anyone on the forum has done their own, it would make a great "do it yourself" article.

Heck, once you get to it, it doesn't look bad at all.

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KenP

1996 S500 W140 Coupe

this is why cars like the 123 and 126, and to a lesser extent, the 124, have near cult like followings. mostly mechanical and solidly built. and the relative ease and cost of repair relative to the newer models. i firmly believe that these cars will be worth more than thier newer counterparts, and still be comtemporary, in the next ten years.

look at how many people love thier 123s and 126s.
and look at how many of them are still in use compared to any car from the same era. not many people are willing to take the time and effort to research the foibles of their 1993 fill- in- the- blank in order to maintain and keep it.

i drove to san francisco a few months ago and most of the cars on the road were newer/ new-ish, cars; 5 model years old or younger. by and far the most popular car that was from before 2000 was the W124, including mine. impressive for a car that was first released, in 1985!!!!

i didnt take a statistical sample, so i cant be quoted as gospel. most cars looked like rentals, newish camries and accords and SUVs. and of course this being california most of them were imports.

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'O=00=O'
bmw 2002.
long live the legend