OK, I took my car to dealer today for a "visual inspection" and brake fluid change. The inspection usually costs 130 and the fluid change 44. But they only charged me 44 for the fluid change (I was suprised!)! So I didn't have to pay for the inspection. I got the inspection because my car's extended warranty is up in 200 miles. Anyway, I am jsut wondering if the dealer is trying to screw me on the head gasket. My car has 83K miles on it now. This is normal for a head gasket to go bad, isn't it??
BUT, when i came to pick up the car, they said, ok changed brake fluid and did visual inspection of everything, and noticed that you have an oil leak. I said, OIL LEAK? I have never seen any oil on the ground or even on the undercarriage belly cover (aside from the time I hit that bump and cracked the pan, ouch!)! How could there be an oil leak? I asked. He said that the Head Gasket was bad and was just beginning to leak oil. I then asked why I have never noticed any oil leaking. He said because "the leak just started so it hasn't yet gotten to the bottom of the engine." That's what made me think something fishy was going on. How slow can oil leak? I mean really? But is this possible? If so, they said it would cost a little over a grand to replace. What I'm asking is is it normal for a head gasket to go after 80K miles (last 15k miles 'driven hard'). If so, then I'd better not drive my car at all this weekend, get it fixed Monday, then file the claim. What do you all think?

And another thing, I had a can of MB brake fluid which I told them to use (I was going to attempt to change it myself, but too freaked to get air in the system). I thought that you needed a whole can of this stuff? It looks like they used between 3/4 and 2/3 of it, does that sound right?

[Edited by Hottee18m on 02-16-2001 at 11:00 PM]

__________________
2006 E350 w/ 155k miles (Daily Driver)

Previous:
1993 300E 3.2L Sedan w/ close to about 300k miles
2003 E500 Brilliant Silver (Had 217k miles when totalled!)
1989 300E with 289,000 miles (had for <1 yr while in HI)
03 CLK 500 cabrio (Mom's)
2006 C230k (Dad's)
1999 S420 (Mom's/Dad's)
2000 C230k Sport sedans
2001 CLK320 Cabrio (Mom's)
1995 C280 My First Mercedes-Benz... (155k miles. EXCEPTIONAL AUTOMOBILE. Was Very hard to let go of!)

This has been discussed numerous times on this board, do a search. It is fairly common for the head gasket on the M104 to leak oil, this is noting new. Others have seen head gasket failures in much less than 83k miles. The engine will leak oil down the right side of the engine block. This is just as common an issue as the wiring harness problem.

Look for the leak, they are probably not trying to screw you, yes it will cost over a grand to replace. I believe they do replace the gasket with an updated non-faulty version.

Yeah, I noticed, stupid me did the search after he posted!! Sorry about that. Thanks again.

__________________
2006 E350 w/ 155k miles (Daily Driver)

Previous:
1993 300E 3.2L Sedan w/ close to about 300k miles
2003 E500 Brilliant Silver (Had 217k miles when totalled!)
1989 300E with 289,000 miles (had for <1 yr while in HI)
03 CLK 500 cabrio (Mom's)
2006 C230k (Dad's)
1999 S420 (Mom's/Dad's)
2000 C230k Sport sedans
2001 CLK320 Cabrio (Mom's)
1995 C280 My First Mercedes-Benz... (155k miles. EXCEPTIONAL AUTOMOBILE. Was Very hard to let go of!)

Out of curiosity, can somebody please enlighten me as to whether the headgasket design was fixed for the '97 model year in the M104? Or are all M104s subject to the same problem throughout the entire production run?

-Thanks as always.

I will call Wynns on the warranty specifics on Monday. But for now, my warranty states, after a list of things that are covered "...and gaskets and oil seals that must be replaced as a result of the repair of a covered part." Does anyone know if that includes the HEAD gasket? I think it does, but I don't know for sure. In any event, I'll call on Monday, no big deal.
Also, don't you think that I'd be able to see oil dripping? or would I not?

__________________
2006 E350 w/ 155k miles (Daily Driver)

Previous:
1993 300E 3.2L Sedan w/ close to about 300k miles
2003 E500 Brilliant Silver (Had 217k miles when totalled!)
1989 300E with 289,000 miles (had for <1 yr while in HI)
03 CLK 500 cabrio (Mom's)
2006 C230k (Dad's)
1999 S420 (Mom's/Dad's)
2000 C230k Sport sedans
2001 CLK320 Cabrio (Mom's)
1995 C280 My First Mercedes-Benz... (155k miles. EXCEPTIONAL AUTOMOBILE. Was Very hard to let go of!)

The 104 engine was used up until 99 in the S320. Still affected by HG leaking oil though.

Porsche 911 Carrera.

__________________
2006 E350 w/ 155k miles (Daily Driver)

Previous:
1993 300E 3.2L Sedan w/ close to about 300k miles
2003 E500 Brilliant Silver (Had 217k miles when totalled!)
1989 300E with 289,000 miles (had for <1 yr while in HI)
03 CLK 500 cabrio (Mom's)
2006 C230k (Dad's)
1999 S420 (Mom's/Dad's)
2000 C230k Sport sedans
2001 CLK320 Cabrio (Mom's)
1995 C280 My First Mercedes-Benz... (155k miles. EXCEPTIONAL AUTOMOBILE. Was Very hard to let go of!)

Hmm, good point. Can you tighten it? Will that only postpone the inevitable?? It will eventually have to be changed right? I didn't know that you could, if you can, do that. But I might aswell get it replaced now before the warranty is up, ya know? Only problem is how to approach this one to my dad. Not a big deal really, because he'll get the thousand $$ back, but boy, he knows how to make a fuss!
New body style for the porsche? First real REDESIGN in 35 years!!!! Or is it just another "make-over" ???

__________________
2006 E350 w/ 155k miles (Daily Driver)

Previous:
1993 300E 3.2L Sedan w/ close to about 300k miles
2003 E500 Brilliant Silver (Had 217k miles when totalled!)
1989 300E with 289,000 miles (had for <1 yr while in HI)
03 CLK 500 cabrio (Mom's)
2006 C230k (Dad's)
1999 S420 (Mom's/Dad's)
2000 C230k Sport sedans
2001 CLK320 Cabrio (Mom's)
1995 C280 My First Mercedes-Benz... (155k miles. EXCEPTIONAL AUTOMOBILE. Was Very hard to let go of!)

S Waiter?? I can't find it? I do'nt understand?

__________________
2006 E350 w/ 155k miles (Daily Driver)

Previous:
1993 300E 3.2L Sedan w/ close to about 300k miles
2003 E500 Brilliant Silver (Had 217k miles when totalled!)
1989 300E with 289,000 miles (had for <1 yr while in HI)
03 CLK 500 cabrio (Mom's)
2006 C230k (Dad's)
1999 S420 (Mom's/Dad's)
2000 C230k Sport sedans
2001 CLK320 Cabrio (Mom's)
1995 C280 My First Mercedes-Benz... (155k miles. EXCEPTIONAL AUTOMOBILE. Was Very hard to let go of!)

Good point Black Mercedes:

So, even if you're Dad rips your head off over the cost of the repair, that's light work for the PRIVELAGE of driving a Mercedes.

Ok, I have never noticed any oil leaking, but is there a way that I can visually see if anything is leaking? I have looked (not too hard though) and don't seem to see anything out of the norm. Will I not necessarily see any oil on the ground if the gasket is bad?

__________________
2006 E350 w/ 155k miles (Daily Driver)

Previous:
1993 300E 3.2L Sedan w/ close to about 300k miles
2003 E500 Brilliant Silver (Had 217k miles when totalled!)
1989 300E with 289,000 miles (had for <1 yr while in HI)
03 CLK 500 cabrio (Mom's)
2006 C230k (Dad's)
1999 S420 (Mom's/Dad's)
2000 C230k Sport sedans
2001 CLK320 Cabrio (Mom's)
1995 C280 My First Mercedes-Benz... (155k miles. EXCEPTIONAL AUTOMOBILE. Was Very hard to let go of!)

I just took a flashlight and looked in and around the engine everwhere that I could "visually inspect" and could not see ANY oil ANYWHERE from under the hood. I have not yet took off the undercarriage and looked from there though. Wouldn't I be able to see oil from under the hood though if the head gasket really in fact IS bad? I looked around what I think is the head gasket (the area between the block and the top of the engine) and couldn't see oil anywhere. Now I'm baffled. Should I let the dealer change it anyway if it isn't bad because it's under warranty and I might aswell get it done with the upgraded one (if it hasn't been changed already, don't have any maintenance records)? Help please!

__________________
2006 E350 w/ 155k miles (Daily Driver)

Previous:
1993 300E 3.2L Sedan w/ close to about 300k miles
2003 E500 Brilliant Silver (Had 217k miles when totalled!)
1989 300E with 289,000 miles (had for <1 yr while in HI)
03 CLK 500 cabrio (Mom's)
2006 C230k (Dad's)
1999 S420 (Mom's/Dad's)
2000 C230k Sport sedans
2001 CLK320 Cabrio (Mom's)
1995 C280 My First Mercedes-Benz... (155k miles. EXCEPTIONAL AUTOMOBILE. Was Very hard to let go of!)

Get real close up and inspect it ...use a latex glove
and feel around the COLD engine, then look for oil
on your glove, then wipe off the suspect area and
repeat the exam some other day to confirm whether
there is oil or not.
A small hand mirror and flashlight also can help
a visual insp.
You warranty seems to state that it will replace the
'gaskets' if it is secondary to repairing some other
failed part in the engine.
As per your quote. You can always claim that your
head is warped (not you, tour car..) and it needs
to be replaced or repaired such that the inevitable
is that the head gasket needs to be removed and replaced.
This was the case for an american car I owned 12 years ago
very near the end of the manufacturer's warranty.
My cost $125.. new head and by the way, new gasket...

Let me know how your warranty co. reacts. I'm interested
in how to contact them to see if I can get an extended
warranty for my C280!

__________________
1979 300D 220 K miles
1995 C280 109 K miles
1992 Cadillac Eldorado Touring Coupe 57K miles SOLD
********************
1979 240D 140Kmiles (bought for parents) *SOLD.
SAN FRANCISCO/(*San Diego)
1989 300SE 148 K miles *SOLD

Sometimes the head gaskets will start to seep. They will not leak enough to hit the floor. In this case, I would wait for it to worsen. It is rare for them to mix the oil and coolant if the oil is seeping from the outside. I would ask to see the leak, then determine the severity.

__________________
Benzmac:
Donnie Drummonds
ASE CERTIFIED MASTER AUTO TECHNICIAN
MERCEDES SPECIALIST 11 YRS

What happens if this problem goes unfixed?? How long will I still be able to drive it before it becomes a real problem?? I will call the warranty place on Monday to get the specifics if it's covered. I know, I thought the same thing about it being covered as the result of something else, so we'll see.

__________________
2006 E350 w/ 155k miles (Daily Driver)

Previous:
1993 300E 3.2L Sedan w/ close to about 300k miles
2003 E500 Brilliant Silver (Had 217k miles when totalled!)
1989 300E with 289,000 miles (had for <1 yr while in HI)
03 CLK 500 cabrio (Mom's)
2006 C230k (Dad's)
1999 S420 (Mom's/Dad's)
2000 C230k Sport sedans
2001 CLK320 Cabrio (Mom's)
1995 C280 My First Mercedes-Benz... (155k miles. EXCEPTIONAL AUTOMOBILE. Was Very hard to let go of!)

I experienced a head gasket leakage a year ago on my 1995 S320L and it was quite hard to find the leakage source until I took off the underhood which carried the leak oil. It is resonable that you could not see any oil underneath. Mine S320L had it on 20,000 miles and was told by the Mercedes mechanics that it is a common fault of that engines and a new modified gasket had launched to make sure that the leakage would not happen so early. So, you should have a peace of mind for quite a long time after replacement. that leakage is not dangerous at all as long as there is adequate oil in your engine but just a little annoying.
Hope this helps!!

[Edited by Davis Lo on 04-26-2001 at 04:09 PM]