Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help




Go Back   PeachParts Mercedes ShopForum > Technical Information and Support > Tech Help

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 02-18-2001, 11:18 PM
Ashman's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Sherman Oaks, CA
Posts: 4,748
Was trying to take off my wheels today and one of the lugs was frozen, and I mean so frozen that I fear nothing will get it off.

Well to put a long story short, lets just say this, that lug bolt is so frozen it seems like it has fused with the brake disc.

It broke my 4 point lug wrench, and even broke a brand spanking new socket while trying to remove the lug bolt.

I'll be taking it in to the tire shop tomorrow so they can try to get that puppy off and at the same time I'll have them loosen the other ones and torque them by hand.

If need be I'll replace the lugs and all but man my day was a waste.

I was all set to pull them so I could do some inspection of the brakes and see if it was possible for me to do my springs myself.

So essentially my day was completely wasted.

I guess I'll take care of some business in the morning, then get those lugz loosened and put back on with proper torque so I can remove them, then go pick up a better socket for my torque wrench and pick up a new lug wrench if needed.

What a lame day for me. My whole reason for getting out of bed today was basically a waste of time. I shoulda just slept in.

Alon
__________________
'92 300CE - Sold
2004 C240 - C7 Wheels - Android Radio
2015 ML350 - P1, Pano, Ash poplar wood, Sport Dinamica interior, Running Boards Keyless go.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 02-18-2001, 11:33 PM
300EVIL's Avatar
Moderator Incarnate
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Lake Geneva, WI.
Posts: 1,676
Alon
you may want to take it to a tire shop and have them put an impact rench on that frozen bolt,,, that might knock it free.
good luck!
adam
__________________
Current Stable:
01 ML55 AMG
92 500E (a few mods)
87 300E (lots of mods)
00 Chevy 3500HD Diesel Box Truck
68 18' Donzi Marine
06 GT i-Drive7 1.0 Mountain Bike (with GPS!)

PREVIOUSLY OWNED:83 300SD, 87 420SEL, 88 420SEL, 90 420SEL, 86 560SEL, 86 190E 2.3-16V AMG, 94 E320

Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 02-18-2001, 11:38 PM
dlswnfrd
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Poor Alon

I know no suggestions will make what has happened go away.
I use a Loctite Anti-sieze Compound. Thier Hi-temp with nickel on the threads of my lug bolts; or for that matter any threads on my Benz.(spark plugs too)
I also do not use the tool-kit lug wrench. I keep in the trunk and use a 1/2 inch drive long handle ratchet with a 13mm deep six point socket for my lug wrench.
I also keep in the trunk a 1/2 inch drive snap action torque wrench set at 85 ft/lbs.
Following the service manual technique, I torque my lugs every 3-5000 miles.
It really makes a difference when the wheels are tight and true.
Happy Trails Beep Beep from Houston!!!
Donald, El Cheapo
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 02-18-2001, 11:54 PM
Ashman's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Sherman Oaks, CA
Posts: 4,748
Donald I went out and bought a nice new torque wrench just for the job. I will buy a nice good socket for it which wont break on a frozen lug... Mine has 17mm lugs - Aftermarket Wheels.

I had the 4 point lug wrench, it did not come with the car, its basically one of those crowbars with 4 sockets on it in various sizes. Only this one was foldable, and really did not have enough size to generate good torque to remove the wrench. It ended up actually twisting the chrome vanadium bar.

What I really need to do is get a good socket and a piece of metal tubing to extend the handle of the torque wrench for added power to undo the bolts, but I did not get that far since the socket broke which means I had enough torque on that puppy.

I plan on taking it in to the tire shop tomorrow to have them impact that lug off. I will then probably just buy a couple of new lugs. and have them loosena nd hand torque each lug. Then drive home, take off the wheels and do what I wanted to do today.

Alon

__________________
'92 300CE - Sold
2004 C240 - C7 Wheels - Android Radio
2015 ML350 - P1, Pano, Ash poplar wood, Sport Dinamica interior, Running Boards Keyless go.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 02-19-2001, 01:00 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: SE PA
Posts: 63
Torque wrench is for tightening!

Alon,

I hope you were speaking loosely when talking about slipping a pipe on your new torque wrench to get more torque. To do so will render your expensive torque wrench junk. Many better ones only have pawls in the ratchet mechanism to allow clockwise rotation, not counterclockwise. A torque wrench is a precision tool and must be treated with care if it is to remain accurate, and therefore useful. What you need is a $25 Craftsman 18 in 1/2-in drive breaker bar with a 6 point impact socket for loosening.

Now, pardon my ignorance here as I don't know if your car has lugnuts or lugs (male studs). If the latter is the case, it's important that if you find one very tight one after loosening others, that the others be retightened before attempting the snug one. I don't recall the exact mechanics of the situation but I believe that it's related to how they were tightened down. If one or more was brought to torque before the others were even beginning to pull torque, a force can result in the remaining ones after tightening that can make them real ba*&^^ds to remove. The key is torquing in steps when installing. Also use Never Seize not only on the threads but on the taper of the head where it contacts the wheel.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 02-19-2001, 01:45 AM
Ashman's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Sherman Oaks, CA
Posts: 4,748
No the bar would be used on a breaker bar not the torque wrench.

I got a torque wrench that can torque either direction, forwards and reverse.

I will buy a better socket and a breaker bar of course, torque wrench is for tightening them down after I'm done.

If I can get the tire shop to loosen it up and hand torque them down, I can do what I was going to do in the first place before I ran into the trouble with the forzen lug.

The lug was the first one I tried. After I was unsuccessful with it, I tightened the others, and tried again on that lug, and still nothing. It seems to need something with more power than my scrawny muscles.

Alon
__________________
'92 300CE - Sold
2004 C240 - C7 Wheels - Android Radio
2015 ML350 - P1, Pano, Ash poplar wood, Sport Dinamica interior, Running Boards Keyless go.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 02-19-2001, 01:51 AM
dlswnfrd
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Ashman

Alon, don't blow it, read the threads and do it right.
Torque in steps until the proper torque is obtained maybe four or more sequences.
Tighten every other lug bolt continuing until finished.
You'll be amazed at how smooth the old tub rolls when her feet are straight against the hubs.
Happy Trails Beep beep from Houston!!!
Donald El Cheapo
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 02-19-2001, 02:18 AM
Ashman's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Sherman Oaks, CA
Posts: 4,748
Donald With your inspiration I will of course work to do it right. Thats why I plan on having my tire shop take off the lugs, then I will have them tightened enough so I can drive the couple miles home and take them off again to do my little bit of car work I wanted to do.

I will then of course use some anti seize, and torque the bolts down the right way to the correct specs, and will re torque them as needed every 3-5000 miles as you said.

What I had said above was it was the first lug I tried, the others loosened with some effor but they loosened. When the other one still wouldn't budge, I tried other methods and it just didn't happen so I tightened everything back down.

More than anything I was bummed to have lost a sunday of pleasurable DIY stuff.

Oh, and the ol tub always feels great on the road, solid, stable, and I can take my hands off the wheel with no correction to straight line movement.

Alon

[Edited by Ashman on 02-19-2001 at 01:21 AM]
__________________
'92 300CE - Sold
2004 C240 - C7 Wheels - Android Radio
2015 ML350 - P1, Pano, Ash poplar wood, Sport Dinamica interior, Running Boards Keyless go.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 02-19-2001, 07:36 AM
glmoy
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Donald,
You said "I also keep in the trunk a 1/2 inch drive snap action torque wrench set at 85 ft/lbs." Isn't the torque
wrench suppose to have the pressure on the spring taken
off it after use???? It would seem that keeping the
wrench set at that high of a value would affect the calibration. I was allways told that back it off to
zero setting after use.

Gary
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 02-19-2001, 08:32 AM
LarryBible
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Yes, you should NOT store a click type torque wrench with tension set.

Also, make sure you use a six point socket.

I don't let tire stores tighten my lugs. I do whatever I have to do to see that I tighten the lugs myself. I have even taken the wheels off, thrown them in the back of my truck and taken them to the tire store, then put them back on myself.

Where I usually buy tires, they see me coming and politely get out of the way. They'll jack the car up and they'll even put on a wheel and start the bolts for me if I'm buisy at another wheel. I currently have a set of six year unlimited mileage Michelins that I bought from this store. They require that they rotate them every 7,500 miles. I drive in and do most of the work myself. They sign off the rotation in the log book and I'm on my way.

I use the short MB lug wrench to "torque" the wheels. I snug them evenly in the five pointed star pattern, then with the wheel on the ground, "torque" them with the lug wrench evenly. I have never warped a rotor with this procedure, and they're always tight.

I bought an extra long wrench from Griot's with a nice rubber handle. It is so long that it's awkward, so I put it in the back of my daughter's car. The extra length is handy for someone under 100 pounds.

I have some anti-sieze compound with copper in it. I use it occasionally on the bolts, so there is always residue on the threads.

Good luck,
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 02-19-2001, 11:31 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 39
Bust a lug nut

I have a friend who spent the better part of a weekend attempting to remove a stubborn lug nut. The local garage split the nut and removed it in 2 minutes for $5.
__________________
JSR

1983 300D Turbo
1995 E320 Wagon
2001 MR2 Spyder
2001 Subura WRX Sedan
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 02-19-2001, 04:46 PM
dlswnfrd
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
From a loose nut to a tight bolt

Ofcourse you follow the instructions for your torque wrench and relax the tension.
A typo in that I said 13mm when we all know the lug bolt head size is is 17mm.
I don't use a six point they reduced the positions I can place the ratchet or torque wrench on the bolt.
I use a standard Craftmans 1/2 inch drive deep socket, 17mm.
To loosen and remove the lug-bolts I use the deep socket and a Craftman 1/2 inch square drive loooong flex ratchet.
I never allow the tire shops to use thier impact wrenches on my lug-bolts. I loosen them and tighten/torque them at thier shop using my tools.
I torque to 85 ft/lbs, the true torque is 81 ft/lbs.
Happy Trails Beep Beep from Houston!!!
Donald El Cheapo, but not with my tools
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 02-19-2001, 07:44 PM
Ashman's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Sherman Oaks, CA
Posts: 4,748
Well since it was raining, My day off today kind of wasted again but at least this time I can blame mother nature.

I plan on having the tire store loosen up the frozen lugs. I then plan on torqeing them myself to the correct torque specs.

So that this does not happen again.

My jeep had rounded lug heads on a few lugs, and the tire store I took them to had to sledge on a smaller socket to get em out.

I do not plan on having them do this because the head on the lug is ok, that puppy is just stuck like its welded stuck. The lug broke a deep wall socket (not a high quality one though) and broke a 4 point lug wrench. So I figure that with a good quality socket, 6 point seems to be the recommended one, I should be ok next time I have to remove them and put them back.

When they break out that impact wrench to redo the tightenening, I instantly stop em, make them hand torque it, and find a new tire shop to use in the future. I'd hate to have to leave the car there to ocme back and find out they impacted them on.

Thanks for all the replies fellas, the info in here, will save my day the next time.

Here is a list of what I use in the future.
1. Anti Seize compound on the threads and lugs.
2. torque wrench set to factory torque specs for torquing the lugs properly, then reset to zero before storing the tool.
3. Tighten in star pattern
4. get a 6 point deep socket of very high quality and strength.
5. Get breaker bar and handle extension for extra torque to remove troublesome lugz.
6. Retorque wheels every 3500-5000 miles

I think thats about it.

Thanks for all the advise, correct my list if its wrong though too please.

Alon
__________________
'92 300CE - Sold
2004 C240 - C7 Wheels - Android Radio
2015 ML350 - P1, Pano, Ash poplar wood, Sport Dinamica interior, Running Boards Keyless go.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 02-19-2001, 08:25 PM
engatwork's Avatar
busy
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Soperton, Ga. USA
Posts: 11,775
Ashman don't be so hard on

the tire store that initially wants to put the impact wrench on the lug nuts. I found a little local mom and pop tire store and once they learned how I am they do not have any problems with it. Just tell them up front that you want to hand tighten the lug nuts yourself. I am like Larry, I do the majority of the work myself when I take it to the tire store for balancing. The first time I did it they thought I was nuts but I don't care. What got me to doing this was once when I took the CRV to have the tires balanced and the next time I tried to rotate them I played heck trying to get the lug nuts off. I always tighten them with the lug wrench that is in the trunk because that is what I am going to have if I have a flat out beside the road.
Jim
'95 E320
'97 CRV
'85 300D
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 02-19-2001, 08:34 PM
ras911
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
One word -- Anti-sieze paste. Then proper torque !!!!!!
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
500SL rims on W126 - new lug bolts required? sjcruiser Wheels & Tires 3 01-17-2005 12:08 AM
500E lug bolts 500EY Performance Paddock 2 04-01-2004 05:09 PM
WTB: lug bolts handsworth Wheels & Tires 3 11-29-2001 01:37 AM
Help with lug bolts fredsegal Wheels & Tires 2 10-24-2001 11:26 PM
Spacers and lug bolts for 500E ricardo Wheels & Tires 8 09-07-2001 10:14 PM



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:49 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2011 Pelican Parts - Posts may be archived for display on the Peach Parts or Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page