Scott,
You certainly are a whiz on computers. And I'm not kidding. I really mean it.I've been at it for almost two years and still have a lot to learn. Who says you can't teach an old dog new tricks? We shall see.
Thanks for supplying the information about batteries. I will enjoy reading it.
Bill Lewallen Lexington,Ky.

Scott and others,
Wasn't it Mark Twain that once said "Believe nothing you read, and only half of what you hear"? This may be reversed,I'm not sure. That's about the way I feel about this discussion on coolants.If Valvoline's Glysantin G 05 is all so powerfull good, why not let the non MB owners buy it and let them decide if it's as good as the other good quality coolants on the market? My opinion: I don't think Ashland Oil want's to enter a market with a product no better than the coolants already on the market. Valvoline already has their Zerex brand of antifreeze, so why would they want to come on the market with a product that is no better than their Zerex brand.
I believe Mr.Twain also said, "If you are in room full of people, and they all doubt your intelligence, don't speak up and remove all doubt". Maybe we all have said too much. With that said, I will exit this discussion.
Bill Lewallen Lexington,Ky. Where Valvoline is, and turbos .whine

First, Bill, you answered your own question, if you re-read your post.

The quotation by Mark Twain actually was, "It's better to keep your mouth shut and appear stupid, than to open it, and remove all doubt."

He also said "I was seldom able to see an opportunity, until it had ceased to be one". and, "Nothing needs reforming as other people's habits".and "When a person cannot decieve himself the chances are against his being able to decieve others".

I could go on, but why should I? Mark Twain never had the pleasure of owning a Mercedes...

Don't chicken out now, it's just getting interesting.

__________________

Scott Longston
Northern California Wine Country...
"Turbos whistle, grapes wine..."

I came upon this thread at this point and had not read any of it previous to it's current length.

I have gotten into the antifreeze freezeout here before. I will say this, longstons comments in this thread and previous ones have made me think about my antifreeze choices of the future, however, I understand perfectly where Mr. Lewellen is coming from.

I have a '78 Ford 4X4 truck for a ranch truck. I bought it new in November '77. When it was brand new I added a little Nalcool to the radiator. I have changed the antifreeze only a couple of times in 23 years and have added Nalcool when I changed the antifreeze. The radiator and water pump are original. The radiator looks impeccably clean and corrosion free and has never made a trip to the radiator shop. The truck has had a zillion very short trips and has less than 90,000 miles.

Improvements have come to virtually everything automotive and otherwise over the years. Although I will probably start using extended life antifreeze next time it's due on any of my cars, I doubt that it will come from the MB dealer, but I wouldn't rule it out yet. With that said, I don't think my old ranch truck has proven anything bad about prestone and nalcool. I also realize that my very unscientific test in my old truck is in a vehicle with zero aluminum in the system.

Have a great day,

I just wanted to throw one quick thought that may have been missed up to this point, if Mercedes see's fit to put their own formulation of antifreeze into there own cars, isn't that good enough?

I mean, those German engineers just don't sit on their duffs all day long. I'm sure they are in there Labs all day working hard at giving you the best most innovative cars in the world (including Cooling Systems), they are at the top of the industry and have been for decades.

And now a short question, are we wiser than them?

Ross

Scott, Ross,and others,
One more fling on the antifreeze fray: On Sunday a friend of mine brought me an article that appeard in the Nov.Dec. 1990 issue of "The Star" magazine, published by The Mercedes Club Of America. The article is on page 20 and is titled "No Mo'Delo? It deals with the fact that suppliers of products to use in auto engines, pay Mercedes(Daimler Chrysler?)and other auto Mfgs.to test their products so they can say it is approved for use in their cars. Chevron felt that the market for MBs was relatively small and did not justify the cost of meeting the restrictions that MB put on the compabies. These restrictions have to do with labelling and names as well as quality. Many companies choose not to pay this fee. They include companies like Shell, Texaco,Amoco,and BP. Gentlemen, these are highly respected companies, and I would say that most American car owners use their products and have never even heard of this magical stuff call Glysantin G 05.
I have known for years that suppliers of products to use in autos paid the auto Mfgs.to "test" their products,and approve them so that they could say that so and so company reccomends their product(s).
Just thought I would share this information with you. After all it's from "The Star".
Bill Lewallen Lexington,Ky. Home of Ashland Oil's Valvoline Glysantin G 05 antifreeze.

Those kind words were validation of part of what I think we are all trying to achieve by posting our comments on this forum in the first place. And that is to simply get each other to THINK about our choices for our cars.

The whole point of this forum to to have numerous opportunities to both receive information from and offer assistance to one another. I would like to hope that where actual knowledge is absent, research is brought to bear, and that it is the fruits of that research that we bring to this forum.

It is always nice when we acknowledge and appreciate the amount of time and work someone puts into doing research on this and other subjects that we respond to on these forums.

You see, it's not about trying to "be right", or to force anyone to change their mind. All anyone can ask is that we all take the time to read what has already been posted on this subject. In both this and the past threads, consider the validity of the points made, do our own research, and then make our OWN informed decision. Just as I have.

As far as Bill's comments about the article in "The Star", I thought we weren't supposed to mix oil with antifreeze/coolant.

Seriously, the one point that struck me was that of the restrictions Mercedes puts on any company that wants to test their products in Mercedes vehicles. It only served to reinforce what Ross was saying about Mercedes engineering.

And as regards the antifreeze/coolant that bears the Mercedes-Benz nameplate, that is a proprietary product manufactured solely for Mercedes, and has nothing to do with the point of the article written for "The Star".

Finally, there was an old expression that originated in the 1960's or '70's. It went like this: "Don't knock it til you try it".

__________________

Scott Longston
Northern California Wine Country...
"Turbos whistle, grapes wine..."

Scott,and others,
I would never mix oil and antifreeze. Nor would I mix any additives to the antifreeze or oil in my cars. The only thing I mix with the diesel fuels, is a product that inhibits fungi growth in diesel fuel.
As for the antifreeze recommended for use in Mercedes, I will admit that it is good stuff. So is the other antifreeze made by Valvoline. And Shell, Texaco, Amoco, BP, Exxon and all the other companies.
Since Valvoline's Glysantin G05 and their Zerex are the same color, should we suspect that if the truth be known they are in fact the same product? Have any of you ever been in a plant where they bottled products? They may bottle the product of many different labels. The filling operation doesn't stop to make changes for each different brand. The bottles with the different label is changed. It would be too costly to shut down and change for each different brand. They (the differnt brands) are all filled from the same tank. This may be called Business Economics 101.
Have you noticed that Advanced Auto antifreeze is the same color as Prestone. Same labels on the back, but different labels on the front. They seem to sell a lot of their ADV brand. I must admit that I use it and with no guilt feelings for shuning the Mercedes product.
Bill Lewallen Lexington,Ky. Home of Ashland Oil's Valvoline; maker of Zerex and Glysantin G 05.

And you tell it so well!

It kind of reminds me of the one I heard about how the Kennedy brothers are living with Marilyn Monore, JFK Jr., and his wife & wife's sister, Nicole Simpson, Mary Jo Kopechne, Amelia Earhart, The now grownup Lindberg baby, Elvis, Janis Joplin, Jimi Hendrix, and Jim Morrison, on an exclusive private estate located on a highly classified, top secret, uncharted island guarded by black helicopters in the South Pacific that's being run by Jimmy Hoffa, using a staff of zombie Bigfoots for slave labor, while both being kept alive and supplied by the airbase aliens from Area 51. But don't tell Art Bell that I ever mentioned it....

BILL! We all need a vacation now and then. But when your plane gets back from "Fantasy Island" perhaps you could supply us with some factual information derived directly from Valvoline? Thanks, I'd appreciate it!

After all, you do live in "Lexington, Ky. Home of Ashland Oil's Valvoline; maker of Zerex and Glysantin G 05."

THIS IS HUMOR, PEOPLE! This is not intended to be a slight on Mr. Wm. Lewallen, or to be in any way disrespectful to him, or intended to riducule him, or any one mentioned in this posting, whether living, dead, factual, or fictional! OK? If anyone is offended in any way, I will both humbly apologize and immediately delete this message, Mr. Phelps...

News Update! I have looked all over the area where I live for a trace of ZEREX and can't find any except at the Walmart. The Manager of their automotive department advises me that he has been told by the head office that Walmart will be discontinuing the sale of ZEREX antifreeze/coolant, and all stock left at their stores will be sold at a major discount.

Hummmm, maybe Bill IS on to something, after all... Now, where did I write down that phone number for Art Bell?

__________________

Scott Longston
Northern California Wine Country...
"Turbos whistle, grapes wine..."

Scott,
I enjoyed all the humor in your last post. I'm afraid I know only a few of the people you mentioned.I do remember names like Clarence Darrow, W.C. Fields, Lum and Abner, and of ccourse Laural and Hardy.
Scott, did you figure out the puzzle about the only common word in the English language with three consecutive double letters in it's spelling. If so, please post it so the others will the answer.
To get away from the antifreeze debate, but still stay in the realm of automobiles, let me ask this question to all of you.
A few years ago a group of automobile engineers were asked what they thought the best improvement was to the automobile since it's introduction in the late 1900's.
Do you you know how the majority answered?
Bill Lewallen Lexington,Ky.

I would swear that I had posted this prior to going out for dinner, so if it shows up somewhere else, let me know so I can delete it! Damn that Art Bell and his aliens!!! I know it was them!

Here's an interesting read courtesy of Kent Christensen: http://www.imcool.com/articles/anitfreeze-coolant/G05-Glysantin.htm

I've re-posted it a few times since Kent originally did, and I thought it was time to do it again...

And Bill, then you'd remember the Lindberg baby, and Amelia Earhart as well as Sacco & Vanzetti. Hopefully, none of them personally. And I'm not going to answer trivia questions and ruin it for other members. It would be like the guy who always tells you what the ending is to the movie you're about to go see! :p

[Edited by longston on 02-28-2001 at 01:32 PM]

__________________

Scott Longston
Northern California Wine Country...
"Turbos whistle, grapes wine..."

Scott and others,
I just got back from my Fantasy Island trip, and sorry to say, it was not too good of a trip. Their were a bunch of people, especially one, hawking a magical product for their auto cooling system that was supposed to do wonders for their cars. But the people wouldn't listen to them. With 80% of US car owners using the Pee-Green Stuff, the people wondered why the Green Stuff could be so bad. Me too.
I have rebuilt somewhere between 40-50 MB engines over the past 34 years. All had the Green Stuff in them when I removed the engine and drained the coolant. None of them showed any harmfull effects from using the Green coolant.
The word with three consecutive double letters is:
bOOKKEEper.
The item the engineers chose as the best improvment to the automobile since it's introduction was THE ELECTRIC STARTER.
Now that is one thing I will agree to.
One more thing. I did check with the Wal-Mart near me(we have two in Lexington) about their selling Zerex antifreeze. They do plan to stop selling it. The automotive parts manager didn't know why but said they didn't sell too much of it. It was on sale for $6.49/gal. Prestone was selling for$6.60/gal.The manager said Prestone outsold Zerex by a wide margin. He wasn't sure how much but he said it was a lot. I wonder why? It certainly couldn't be the price.By the way, I did not buy any of the cheap Zerex. I have plenty of Prestone on hand. With that said, I will now leave you, and hope to meet again as friends.
Bill Lewallen Lexington, Ky. Where the turbos whine in the bluegrass.

Black Mercedes,
I must also confess that I know little about coolants. Just that I have used Prestone for over 50 years in at least 50 cars with nary a bit of trouble. Why knock a good product, when 80% of American motorist are using it in their cars.
Bill Lewallen Lexington,Ky. The Blue Grass State; where turbos whine.

John S.
I forgot to ask about the prize for naming the song(poem). Back in the 50's we owned a few VWs and as I remember, none of them used any liquid coolant. Their engines were air cooled. If I would win the contest,what would I receive as a prize. A gallon of air? Or maybe a gallon of dehydrated water.
Bill Lewallen Lexington,Ky. The state with fast horses and pretty women. Or is it the other way?

John S,
By gum John,you take the cake. As for using the antifreeze used by Japanese bikers, I think I'll stick with Prestone(that God awfull Green Stuf). I've used it for the last 50 years. Never any problems. No reason to change.
Bill Lewallen Lexington,Ky. Where turbos whine in the Blue Grass State.