Water wetter: who is (has been) using it??
 

Am considering using water wetter concentrate with distilled water as coolant during the Summer period. Antifreeze significantly decreases water's heattransfer capability. Water wetter contains corrosion inhibitors and claims to bring down water's surface tension enhancing heattransfer even more.

Does anyone have any experience with this product ??

Thanks,
V.

Water wetter is a good product for RACING! Have used it since 1997..
But in any area that requires 40-50% anti-freeze in the cooling system it will have very little to NO effect.
If you don't need much antifreeze in YOUR area then IT will help!


IF you have the time to flush system every spring & fall, then durning the summer months it WILL help the cooling system!

You need less than 20% anti-freeze in the cooling system for water-wetter to help.

I'm doing some modding work on my other, turbocharged car incl. fitting a larger intercooler. The radiator will be relocated behind this intercooler, which means it's cooling capacity will diminish. Now before adding -expensive- electric fans and such, I'd thought to give this water wetter solution a try to compensate for the lost cooling. Drive this car in summer only, so no antifreeze necessary.

Thanks!

I used it for a couple of years in an Infiniti Q45.

I don't think it hurts, not so sure if it helps.

Changing coolant every two years is the correct answer. I no longer use it.

Notice is use the word coolant instead of anti-freeze.

I've used for awhile and it does what it says provided, as MB DOC says, that your af/water ratio is not to high. In So Cal, I use 35/65 ratio and it did a great job cooling.

However, I had a problem that showed as "oil" in the coolant overflow bottle. Thought that I had a head gasket leak. But it wasn't! :D

Subsequently it was verified by Water Wetter personnel that WW can leave a 'oil' like substance when used with some brands of antifreeze. It can be seen as an 'oil-film' and shows as floating on top in the overflow tanks.

Detail are on my page, MENU#17.

This probably will happen to you. The good news is that it's basically harmless. However if you are put off by this problem, I've recently switched to another addtive called Purple Ice. The details are shown in the text and in the "Alternate Method" section below. This product does not leave an oil-film as does WW and it cools as well as WW. I'm currently using Mercedes AF, distilled water and Purple Ice at 35/65%.

I have used in both the 78 very modified vette and in the 75 stock vette. It droped the temp by 15 to 25 deg. F. I was very satisfied.

I've used it in Alfas and I wouldn't do a coolant change without adding a bottle. At $6 it's cheap insurance against over-heating. I keep the antifreeze protection to only -20 F so that helps too but the Redline stuff seems to do a good job and the temp gauge doesn't swing as far hot as it does without it.

It works. Don't expect a miracle. It won't fix a problem. It will help lower temps about 10 to 15 deg/f.

Lots of threads on this topic.

At the end of the day, the (what seems to be the total) lack of independent testing, and, the lack of ability to recognize negative side effects, seems to point to it as the "perfect product" to sell.

Wish I had thought of it first.

Wonder what the mark-up is on it?

Perhaps it was the precursor to the current bottled water fad?

Well it's not a scam. It won't fix a overheating problem. It does what it advertises it will do. Nothing more or less. I have used it for years, it has lowered temps up to 20 deg/f using a 50/50 mix of water/coolant. Redline is a good company that makes great products, as anyone that has used Redline diesel fuel catalyst can attest to. I have used redline products for twenty years, they work. Period.

Hmmm ... lowering 20 degrees over a baseline of around 200F is about 10% - I am assuming this is at the max end since min is determined by the thermostat. Temps going too high is usually related to cooling system problem(s) on production cars, and undersizing on special purpose systems - all interrelated to ambient temperatures, air moisture levels, and enginer load (I probably missed some).

Since I can't do the chemistry required to rip into the claim (at the molecular level?), and there isn't any independent testing (odd on a product that has been around this long and claims things not easily recognized), all I can logically surmise is some minor (I suspect incredibly minor) advantage.

IMO, LOTS of companies make products that do nothing, or very little - some of them even reputable.

Sorry - without independent testing, I just can't get into WaterWetter ...

Cool marketing name, though.

I know that my 450SL, which had a new radiator, water pump, and thermostat, ran 20 deg/f cooler with WW. With the WW it ran 165 to 170deg/f. Compared to 190 deg/f without. This is in 90 deg/f plus ambient temps, using the a/c and a combination of stop and go city driving and 70mph interstate runs.

I've tested it independently on quite a few of my cars. The way Water Wetter works is simple chemistry/physics the specifics of which I don't know details about other than it allows the coolant to transfer heat to the radiator walls better than coolant alone. On a similar note, ask yourself why all radiators are painted black. Because black dissipates heat the best, so as an experiment, paint your radiator white and let us know what the temperature gauge shows.

Hi, again ... was actually referring to independent testing by a lab or independent technical group.

The dark color/thermal thing is pretty well proven in the world of physics, I think.

This is just wrong... An un-painted radiator will transfer heat from the coolant to the atmosphere the fastest... The thin layer of paint inhibits heat transfer, albeit very little.

They are painted black to be more invisible thru the grillwork of automobiles, and because they always have been painted black. They are painted period to help protect them from the elements they are exposed to, ie coorosion, road salt, etc. The color black has nothing to do with the transfer of heat from the coolant to the airflow thru them. IF it did, why aren't the insides of the radiator painted black as well? Another question, why aren't heater radiators (cores) painted black? Perhaps some are, but every one I have ever had in my hands was unpainted, which includes heavy equipment as well as consumer autos...

Walrus,

Aackk ... you are right, of course, in the convective world - and, that's that where auto radiators are. While I didn't consider it and yapped too quickly (as usual), my comment was more related to radiative transfer. Other form is conductive transfer - it doesn't relate to color, either, right? (Someone who's qualified jump in, please!)

Ok, I'll jump in
 

Yes, color matters in radiation (and absorption, that is why the Space Shuttle is black at the bottom and white everywhere else), but the amount of heat radiated by a "radiator" is very small compared to the amount convected away. In that sense we should call the units "convectors" rather than "radiators". The technical name is "heat exchanger".
As far as the water wetter, I know of no mechanism that would allow the WW to improve conduction to the inside walls of the radiator to the point of lowering the overall temperature 10 F. On the other hand, lowering the coolant concentration from 50% to 20% or so, adding distilled water and WW (for its anti corrosion additives etc.) could do it because water is a much better heat transfer agent than coolant (I do not know about WW). Which is what M. B. Doc was saying in his post.

JL

The old '87 190e 2.3 at one point had a bad (clogged radiator from running the green coolant I believe) I used Water Wetter in it.

It didn't perform miracles but it did lower the running temps about 10 degrees in the summer until I replaced the radiator.

Haasman

I am not supporting or denying WW 's claims, but I will opine on water conditioners in general. The chief benefit of a water conditioner is to prevent cavitation as the coolant impacts the vibrating, heated combustion chamber surfaces. If coolant is allowed entrained air, as it impacts the hot cylinders walls and other heated engine internals, the air bubbles are allowed to or caused to explode or burst, which can erode the surfaces... Furthermore, the cylinder walls are vibrating similar to an ultrasonic cleaner, which breaks down any entrained air in the coolant fluid, forming micro-bubbles. Conditioners change the surface tension properties to minimize the formation of air bubbles. These bubbles also prevent full conductive heat transfer by acting like a blanket between the fluid and the heated surface.

Of course, all the above could be Bull****, but I believe it to be more or less accurate.

haasman,

But, as I understand it, WW directions call for increasing the percentage of water? If so, that is what decreases the coolant maximum temp, right?

So, if one were to increase the percentage of water in their coolant, without adding WW, the max temp (all things being equal) would also decrease?

Taking it one at a time.
 

Walrus, I think I understand your cavitation argument, my problem with it is that air does not dissolve in water in any significant amount, therefore any entrained air (and there should not be much of it if we do a reasonable job of filling the system) will allways be in the form of bubbles. WW cannot affect air bubble formation. At any rate, air cannot contribute to cavitation because it cannot become liquid. On the other hand, water can, and you could argue that WW alters the process in which water in contact with the hot wall evaporates and then away from the wall cools down and cavitates. It is possible and I do not know that there is any data supporting it of contradicting it. There is plenty of data to support what George is asking about:

"So, if one were to increase the percentage of water in their coolant, without adding WW, the max temp (all things being equal) would also decrease?"

Yes. You need the WW for the anticorrosion, lubrication and other stuff only.



JL

Actually, if air did not dissolve into water very well, what would fish do for respirable Oxygen? They do not break down water molecules and release hydrogen, but extract dissolved air from the water.

All this means nothing really... anecdotal evidence exists that conditioners, such as water wetter do work. I agree that lower ratio of glycol additives to water are better, with straight water being a better coolant than water/antifreeze mixture.

Air in water
 

Sorry, did not mean to be argumantative. Fish need oxigen, maximum oxigen concentrations in water depend on temperature and salinity. It decreases with both. At zero salinity, 77 F and atmospheric pressure the maximum amount of oxigen is about 0.0089 grams per Kilogram of water. For air the number rises to 0.023 grams per Kilogram. That is what I meant by "any significant amount". As far as wether WW works or not, I have no opinion.


JL