300E 89 205k miles - head gasket
 

Hi all,

I have owned a 300E 89 for a couple of years and due to commuting have put about 103k of the 205k miles myself (about 160miles every day).

For the past 1 1/2 years I have not driven the car much due to telecommuting, mainly quick trips to the store and once a while a longer 40mile trip, otherwise the car has been parked. The shorter trips have probably been 2-5miles. There are times when in a week I may only drive the car on Saturday.

Last time it had service (see below) was some time before I stopped driving every day.

Last Friday my wife and I were getting ready to go to the store. Turned the car on and a second or two after the engine was running we heard a loud tack tack sound. To me it sounded like something slip and started to make that noise.

We didnt go anywhere that day, instead what I did was open the hood and see if i could tell where the noise was coming from, couldnt pinpoint it (ie. was it towards the valve cover or the belt tensioner)

Noticed that the coolant level was down, and it seemed to be low in oil (car in general uses oil and it has a leak but didnt know where exactly was leaking).

Added coolant (non mbz / premix 50/50 from Kragen - that is what i had available), added 1/4 quart of oil and restarted engine, the sound diminished, i could hear it but below the normal sound of the engine.

Next day went to the store and purchased some 20/50 (before i was using 10/40, car was serviced before w/ 20/50) and added just a little bit of that oil to full mark lvl in dipstick

Had a 30k service done in the car yesterday (included replacement of oil/filter etc), car is quiet, while the car was being serviced the engine was degreased and mechanic said located the source of the leak. Head gasket - front right side

Suggested a new gasket and since the head needed to be removed, they suggested to do valve job as well. (total assesment $3,500 per dealer but not a firm price as they said they do not know what else they may discover once they remove the head).

We were planning to take this car on a long trip 2k-3k miles and are concerned about the head gasket. We are also concern about the large quantity of repair costs, however we would like to keep the car as the body is in great condition and the interior is as well - car is paid for and car insurance is low. Other things car needs are front shocks and A/C work (blower, which i will try to fix myself).


Questions:
Should the headgasket be changed and only the head gasket? If only headgasket was changed how much $$ average does that cost.

Since headgasket is being replaced I guess it makes sense to do a valve job given the miles, would asking them to only change the seals save money and add some life to the valves per se? or should a complete valve job just be done since the head is coming out anyways?

While researching this issue I came across rebuilt engines and rebuilt heads. Prices for the engines were around $3600 plus 400-800 core and for the head around $800 + 400+ for core.

Which made me wonder if one is to spend that amount of money why not just get a rebuilt engine, on the other hand it all seems overkill since all I currently seem to have is an oil leak.

Suggestions and advice greatly appreciated.

That seems like a lot of money for a head gasket...
 

and that is probably why I did my own with a member from this forum. For the record, I am a very basic DIY'er with MB manuals.
What I can tell you is that I paid around $500 for parts and machine shop rebuilt my head (car). Do a search...I posted some pictures but, they may not be there now.
My advice...look for another estimate!

You need to either do it yourself or find a good independent to do it. For them it would be a routine job in the $1200 to $1800 price range. It could be that there is a corrosion problem in the aluminum head if the coolant has not been changed OFTEN. If that is the case there are plenty of good shops that can weld it up with no trouble.

Definitely do the valve job while the head is off. These engines respond REAL well to this work, but DON'T pay $3500 for the work. In fact, bring it to me, and I'll do it for $3475!:D

Best of luck,

Thank you for the replies.

What would be a more realistic price for the valve job/headgasket?

Would the [$1200 to $1800 price range] apply to both the valve job and the replacement of the head gasket? or just the replacement of the head gasket?

That price range sounds a lot better if its for the whole thing.

====

One other thing, the following was shared by a neighbor not sure if this is an educated or non-educated guess.
His opinion was that currently the bottom of the engine is settled with the presure offered from the top of the engine, and that if the valve job was to be done, then it would put a lot more pressure to the bottom portion of the engine and eventually that lower part would go out too.. Is this right?
Thanks again

I am not in the rebuild business, nor an expert, but unless your neighbor can see the condition of the bottom end, he may be smoking something ...

My '92 300E, same engine as yours, has a slight head gasket leak. Has had it for 100K miles more or less. Car currently has 233K and runs fine with no oil in the coolant.

Quote from my indy is 1200 to 1500 dollars for valve job and , of course, new head gasket.

I it was me, I would want crawl under there and look closely for the leak. From what I have read the leak on this engine is normally passenger side toward the rear of the head. That's where mine is. Could it be that your leak is actually from the front timing cover? This is also common.

Steve

These engines can leak and then they can LEAK.

There are many of them running around that leak a slight amount of oil down the side of the cylinder block due to improper head gasket sealing. There are probably some of these doing so and the owner doesn't even know. This leak you can live with for awhile by simpling keeping an eye on it.

A COOLANT leak is COMPLETELY different matter and must be dealt with immediately.

Yes the 12 to 18 covers the valve job. Could be a little more if there is a corrosion problem. If that is found don't buy another head, there are plenty of good shops around that will weld up the head and make it good as new. Mine was welded up well over 100,000 miles ago and is doing fine.

Good luck,

Posting a follow up to this post.

Still undecided as to what to do.

Did talk to the dealer and asked them to give me a written quote of what exactly would be done/changed for that amount, let me know what do you think?

They said that they would do the valve job (sublet to machine shop), headgasket, reman water pump, thermostat, timing chain w/ tensioners & sliding rail, and belt tensioner, for 3500 (including tax).

The belt tensioner was changed some 100k miles ago, the water pump probably (cant find my receipt) has about 30k miles (im sure i could ask them to skip that - but figured they are already in there).

I am the third owner, and purchased the car when it had 103-105k miles. I have placed the other 100k+ (mostly highway). Have mechanic receipts from the 2nd owner and I do not see timing chain work nor valves so it looks like it needs both.

So does all this work seem more in line w/ the amount?

So far the ballpark quotes i have received from people have been $3500, $3000, $2500-$3000
Still waiting for a detailed quote from the other two (they have not visually seen the car per se).

Was told the sublet job including parts would be around $600. I did call a random local machine shop who said it would be a ballpark of $350-450 plus, but he wouldnt be able to know for sure until he saw the cylinder head (understandable).

Seems to me based on what i have read that all suggested items are needed given the amt of miles the vehicle has. I could almost buy another used one, but then i wouldnt know the history of it, and may still have to fix it some more.

Eventually ill become mechanical DIY (dont have the place nor the tools to work with as of yet).

I got to tell you.. i was even wondering maybe i could drive to Texas and have Larry do his magic (close to Plano?) not sure if they car would make it there though.

Thoughs?

Thanks

Mine has a oil leak from the right front of the engine. I confirmed that the oil from the timing chain case. It is very common to 300e, I can live with it, no big deal. Please double check yours to see the oil from the timing chain case or from the head. By the way, I just picked up my Honda 01 CRV with 56,000 miles from the dealer. The problem was that one valve broken inside, they replaced the whole head for $2,800.

My leak appeared to be in the front right hand side.

Took it to an indy, who sprayed some cleaner on the front timing cover, we then drove the car for a couple of miles and came back to the shop. No oil leak appeared to be present, if anything it appeared that some small amount came from the timing cover. Didnt appear to come from the head gasket thought. Will do another visual check tomorrow morning.

He said that if it was his car he wouldn't do a full valve job but instead would just change the valve guide seals, change the timing chain/tensioner and reseal the timing cover, and possibly change the radiator if needed for $1500 or so.

I know the issue at this stage is that the car per kbb is not worth much and to put so much more into it may seem foolish. I like the car but also dont want to have to put so much into it, if it isnt needed.

Can the car go another 100k without a full valve job if the head gasket is not leaking?

Are you certain the oil leak is not from the valve cover gasket? At 70+K, my 1990 2.6 appeared to be leaking oil from the head gasket - it was running down the side of the block under the exhaust manifold. The MB dealer mechanic said it was the head gasket. Careful, close examination showed that the leak was really coming from the gasket under the valve cover. It was running down the side of the head between the exhaust manifold ports, then down the side of the block all along the right side of the engine. Also down the back of the engine because of the failed valve cover gasket. I thoroughly cleaned all surfaces and replaced the valve cover gasket. Leak gone! Still have a very slight leak around the top timing chain cover. This usually shows as wet spots around the right or left front of the engine. Not enough to really worry about. Currently have 98K on the car. Will probably wait on the timing chain cover until I do radiator and water pump. Don't know if a head gasket will be required for some time. Some don't develop the leak at all or not until high miles. Signs of head gasket leak - brownish oil droplets or oil layer on top of coolant in expansion tank, oil leak at head gasket from back right corner or the rear of engine. As others have said, if you keep the engine, go for complete valve job at that mileage.

You can stop your stressin. I'll do the job for $2000. Heck I'll even throw in a water pump since we're there. With the mileage you have a valve job is in order and particularly if you start seeing oil in the water. The job would be done right. I do need to finsh the valve job I'm doing on an 86 300E first. I served my apprenticeship at Robbers and Bandits in Marin, better known as RAB Motors Inc. ( the dealership ). You can check my bio. I'll actually be in Santa Rosa today. I have to some work on my townhouse. You don't need no stinkin Smother's Brothers.:D

PM me for a cel# if your interested.
Peter