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DTM FAN 03-15-2001 07:28 PM

My father just bought a new CLK Cabriolet and I noticed it only has one rear fog light. In 1991, we bought a new Alfa Romeo 164 (now retired as the vacation home car, we will NEVER sell such a beatiful car) and it had two rear fog lights. Is it supposed to be just one on the CLKs?

ymsin 03-15-2001 07:30 PM

Its also one rear (driver's side) for the 300SE.

Jettpilot 03-15-2001 07:36 PM

Would it be possible to add the rear fog light on an 89 300e?

Brian K 03-15-2001 08:10 PM

Its already starting here in LA . . . In addition to driving around with front fog lights blazing all the time (clear night, city streets lit like day - and sometimes ever DURING the day) . . . now the damn REAR fog lights are blazing 24/7. Full coverage annoyance now!

DuckMuck 03-15-2001 10:01 PM

I think all German cars only have one rear fog light in the rear...and only shines on one side...I forgot which side though...but it is the same for BMW and Mercedes-Benz...obviously, the rear light doesn't help you see, but only makes you more visible to the people behind you under heavy fog...I guess the Germans didn't think it was necessary to implement two in the rear...I guess it looks kinda funny...

Jettpilot,

You don't have the single rear fog light in the rear? That is strange...it should be on the W124...your car is equipped with front foglights right? If you click the light switch twice to the right, and pull out once, it engages the front foglights, and if you pull out twice, it will engage the front and back foglights...I'm not familiar with your specific W124 model year...but if after pulling it out twice, and you still aren't gettin' anything in the rear, you might wanna pull open the tail light assembly on the fog light side and check if the bulb is in good condition. However, I am pretty sure your car has a rear foglight too, but if I'm wrong, I apologize in advance, only tryin' to help!

[Edited by DuckMuck on 03-15-2001 at 10:05 PM]

longston 03-15-2001 10:44 PM

Hey Brian!
 
I thought the whole point of living in L.A. was to draw attention to oneself. I guess these "foglight bandits" don't have anything else to help them stand out.

Pity them...:(

bobbyv 03-16-2001 09:00 AM

the reason why there is only one rear foglamp is that so it won't be confused with brake lights.

if there are 2 rear foglamps, the trailing driver will have to observe your car for a few seconds more to come to the conclusion that you are not on the brakes.

the convention is to place the rear foglamp on the driver's side.

i think it is a necessity in heavy rain or thick fog, to reduce your chances of being rear-ended. My 1989 190e does not have the wiring for the rear foglamp, and i wish they left it there - it's just a single wire!




wilton 03-16-2001 09:24 AM

Brian,

The point of the lights evidently works, doesn't it? You obviously SEE them. (Don't get upset, now, I'm "kidding" you just a little bit.)

I use my fogs as DRL's 'cause I want my car to be seen by other drivers. 'May be a little much, but uninsured fool suddenly turned left across in front of wife several years ago; totaled our 80 240D; fool said he did not see the 240D; bright, clear day; cars only 50 feet or so apart going toward each other. If the other driver sees my orange lights, maybe he/she won't "do something stupid" and hit me, or if I do something stupid, maybe they can get out of the way.

Jim Anderson 03-16-2001 11:46 AM

My 1991 190e has the single rear fog light. I noticed the other tail light assembly has the physical socket for one but it's not wired or used. Also,the light switch has a yellow indicator that comes on only when the rear for light is on.

And, no, the whole point of living in LA is not to draw attention. Mine is to not live in the snow, but it looks good in the rearview mirror when I'm done visiting it.

For safety I prefer not to have the fog lights on. People are looking for two white lights on a car, any deviation from that drops the noticeability. I learned that from riding a motorcycle. When some people look, they are looking for cars. Bikes, trucks and even trains are'nt in that catagory, but its only bikes that have to worry. Per the famous quote:"Are their any cars coming?"

[Edited by Jim Anderson on 03-16-2001 at 11:52 AM]

Mikey 03-16-2001 12:24 PM

Reason for one rear fog
 
The rear fog is always on the driver's side of the vehicle, and there should only be one. Two fogs could confuse it with brake lights. The fog light is on the driver's side, so faster traffic will know which side of the lane to pass on, and how much clearance they have on the left. Remember, in Germany people drive fast with or without the fog, so they need to know where traffic is at all times.

Mercedes also have the ability to keep a turn signal on, either the left or right, while the car is turned of. This is used for parking, when you park on a corner, or perhaps a blind intersection. So, during the evening, or fog, traffic can see where the end of your vehicle is, and avoid hitting you.


Brian K 03-16-2001 12:42 PM

Wilton, if the point is to be seen for "safety reasons"
then why don't you drive around with your high beams on all the time (even during the day)? I'd certainly see you then. Or how about with your hazards flashing? No one will miss you then. If you don't drive around with high beams and flashers going, and someone hits you, you're gonna kick yourself, because you'll *know* that if you had that added "visibility" you would have avoided an accident. Your safety is worth it.
And, driving with only 2 fogs on doesn't really get you noticed, now that everyone does that. It time to up the ante with FOUR fogs. Or maybe 2 fogs with those JC Whitney fake xenon blue bulbs in them. Gotta stand out. Take a look at a JC Whitney catalog. Its a HUGE biz, filled with "safety products." Many of which involve putting lights on all conceiveable parts of a vehicle (including a ram's head hood ornament for Dodge Ram trucks, complete with red glowing eyes! That'll really let them see you coming!)
I guess my view of foglights comes from my own personal experience. Confession time: In the mid 80's, when I was 18, I had a BMW 320i, with foglights. Back then, not many other cars had foglights. I drove with them on all the time (well, not during the day). I justified it for "safety reasons" and because it "increased visibility." Even though I knew that as lighting, on clear nights, they did essentially nothing (except light up maybe 5 feet in front of the car, which is useless unless you are going 1 mph). I stopped the practice after a few years, and looking back, I will admit that I did it in an attempt to say "Look at me and my BMW." I now blame it on being a teenager.
Teens do the exact same thing these days, but have had to go far beyond fogs, now that every Pontiac, BMW, MB and SUV go around blazing fogs 24/7. So, the kids do "blue lights", clear lenses with clear lights, and other bizarre things. Say what you want, but it gets them noticed, and can be justified for "safety reasons." Just like foglights, that's nonsense in my book. Its all a capitulation to the base human nature to say "Look at me and my cool car."
People are gonna do what they please, and justify it how they please. That is totally fine. But others are going to have opinions, and that is fine too. My OPINION is that driving around with fogs on in clear whether is silly, childish, discourteous to other drivers, needlessly adding to visual pollution, and illegal in most states, no matter how it is attempted to be justified.
Just my OPINION, formed after at least 10 years of this perennial debate. Lots agree with it, lots don't. One thing, though, people don't usually change sides! Deep inside, we are all either "I need to drive with foglights on" type people or not, it seems! Kinda like being left or right handed, I guess were born with it!

someguyfromMaryland 03-16-2001 12:49 PM

Actually, the rear fog light is a point of contention in Europe. My 300TE has the left rear fog, my Volvo 765 Turbo has right and left rear fogs. Both sides are following their own logic. Germans feels that you want to light up the side nearest the middle of the road so if it's really bad, you know where the edge is you're supposed to be left of while passing. Swedes probably think it makes sense to put all the candlepower you can back there when it's foggy out there.

Perspectives affect alot of decisions. I read that MB never put cupholders in cars until they came to California and saw people sitting in $130k SLs, stuck in traffic, pissed because they had no where to put their coffee or big gulps. Germans like to sit at a roadside cafe, sip coffe at the table, then get in the same SL and haul butt down the autobahn at 150 kph+. Can you see why they thought cupholders were a dumb idea?


wilton 03-16-2001 02:02 PM

Brian, that's one reason we all have different names, isn't it? We're all different, & that's OK. Just 2 fogs facing forward - that's enough "gliz" , razzle-dazzle, etc. for me.
I don't really care if anybody sees that "it's" a Mercedes.
I just rather they not get me into an accident in either of them - neither the twenty-year-old one nor the ten year-old one - I'd feel the same if it were a 2 or 20 year-old Ford, etc. BTW, how about the strings of lights on some of the big trucks, these days.

jjrodger 03-16-2001 03:48 PM

I'm wary of flaming but... fog lights are a nuisance. It is almost never so foggy that normal headlights are inadequate. People in the UK have started using front fogs all the time, like I'm going to mistake their 316i coming up behind me for a Le Mans GTR emerging from the pits. It's just rude: you wouldn't drive around with your main beam permanently on. And they are totally useless, even in fog!

As for rear fogs, they are down right dangerous in all but the most extreme situations. Like any over bright light, they are a serious distraction for following drivers. And they make brake lights a lot more difficult to perceive in an instant. That is the reason why there is only one fog light on German cars. I guess the logic of those who use rear fogs at night or in the rain is that it makes them more visible. In fact it makes them less visible when it counts: when they are braking. When it is dark and wet, with water on the screen &c, they make it very difficult to see for following drivers.

People also forget to turn them off. At least the MB light switch makes this stupidity impossible. The UK police occasionally have a purge on this sort of thing; should be a hanging offence.

David C Klasse 03-16-2001 04:25 PM

I drive with my front fog lights on at night time because I can see better. I can see farther in front of me and I can see better off to the side. I believe that makes me a better driver having better visibility of the road and what is in front of me. Rarely, do I use the rear fog light, only in the rain.
I sometimes drive with my fog lights on during the day just to make me more visible to other drivers. I really don't see what the big deal is. I don't do it to be seen in my Mercedes, just to help avoid an accident.

longston 03-16-2001 05:33 PM

Way Too Illuminating...
 
Quote:

Originally posted by blackmercedes
David,

18, right? We'll have this chat again in a few years.

I personally have no problems seeing an oncoming vehicle that has it's headlamps illuminated. An extra 50 Bazillion Lumens is simply annoying.

JS.

You slay me, John!

And David, just as you have outgrown your old screen name (thank you...), so to, will you outgrow your old preconceptions about driving lights. When I was 18, I used to think that I was a better driver by not turning on my headlamps until I actually needed them to see in front of my vehicle, and that the other lights on the car were sufficient for other cars to see my vehicle during dusk. Until someone pointed out to me that those were called "parking lights".


David C Klasse 03-16-2001 05:37 PM

Yes, 18; and I can see better with my foglights on. The headlights light well, but I can see better at night with the foglights on also. I don't believe they are bright enough to be blinding other drivers. I don't to it to be seen in my Mercedes either. I don't understand how you can say my perspective will change in a few years?

Brian K 03-16-2001 05:47 PM

As I said above, I could see much better with my foglights on when I was 18, too.
But, for some reason, now that I am 35, the regular headlights seem just fine, thank you.
And I thought night vision was supposed to get WORSE with age!

David C Klasse 03-16-2001 05:54 PM

Confused??
 

Ashman 03-16-2001 07:39 PM

I have no problems with the fogs or the rear fogs.

I only use mine if it rains hard and I am drivign on the freeway where all that rain and water makes visibility low.

The last time it rained here in LA, was a few weeks ago, and I had to driveon the freeway when it was raining alot.

The water spraying off the tires and the rain coming down, and the overcast sky, amde visibility bad, the fogs and rear fog light was on at that time.

When driving normally I don't use the fog lights.

Now if I had some nice driving lights int he bumper, and they provided more visibility at night I would use those, but fogz when visibility is clear is just not what I do.

Alon


jjrodger 03-17-2001 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by David C Klasse
I drive with my front fog lights on at night time because I can see better. I can see farther in front of me and I can see better off to the side.

Rarely, do I use the rear fog light, only in the rain.

I sometimes drive with my fog lights on during the day just to make me more visible to other drivers. I really don't see what the big deal is. I don't do it to be seen in my Mercedes, just to help avoid an accident.

Your front fogs do not help you see further ahead at night. Check out the beam pattern. They throw a pool of light about 25 ft forward and 10 ft to each side. They are designed to be used where visibility is 100 yds or less and assist you in those circumstances by showing where the curb is. Your dipped beam stretches much further ahead but in foggy conditions is reflected back by the fog.

Using your rear fogs in rain is very dangerouse. The glare they give off--especially when viewed through a rain soaked windscreen--makes it difficult to see your brake lights come on.

You think your front fogs ensure that I see you as you approach from behind. They do, but they dominate the view in my rear view mirror so that I cannot immediately perceive other following traffic.

If I am following you, your rear fog light makes it difficult for me to see your brake lights coming on instantly; my ability to react is diminished; the likelihood of me rear ending you is increased.

Why do you think every driving manual, every driving course, and every driving expert says that you should only use your fog lights when visibility is 100 yds or less? Come to think of it, why do you think they're called fog lights?

David C Klasse 03-17-2001 02:29 PM

Jjrodger,
Well thank you for helping me further understand why not to use the fog-lights. Though I don't think there was a need to be snappy.

Jim Anderson 03-17-2001 02:49 PM

My rule of thumb is if I have trouble seeing the tail lights of the car in front of me, I turn my tail fog on.

jjrodger 03-17-2001 06:45 PM

I'm sorry if I was snappy, I really try to avoid such behaviour, and the internet--of course--makes it easy to speak without thinking. I try to imagine I'm in an argument in my local--though without success it seems! Driving these days often works one into a rage; yet that is the sign of a bad driver; we must be calm. I should know, I'm bloddy hopeless at being safe and keepinng my cool.

Jeepboy 03-17-2001 10:06 PM

WELL SAID BRAIN K
 
I own a Jeep Wrangler with clear fogs and use them only when driving at night with little traffic. Mine are very useful because they light up the sides more so that i could see deer faster. And this has happened and saved me from hitting a deer.
I used to use my fog lights all the time with my low beams on until i started to notice how bright the other jeep wranglers lights were when the fog lights were used and approaching them. Not needed in the city!!!
There should be laws prohibiting their use in the city.
Have respect for other drivers, and if you blind them, you are only increasing the chance of them hitting YOU!

CJ 03-18-2001 08:06 AM

Well done, my friend!

Clauser1 03-18-2001 09:04 AM

Fog lights
 
If we cannot drive w/out a bunch of lights on,unfoggy nights
We have to have our vision examined.
We are just endangering ourselve,the driver infront of us
and the one approaching us.A friend of mine drives a 2.6
he disabled driverside fog,cut a hole on the plastic lense,
cover it w/descent screen and route the intake runner for
his baby breathed more better.

clauser1

wilton 03-18-2001 08:40 PM

You guys talking about these blinding fog lights approaching from the front, approaching from the rear, etc., must be talking about some new-fangled "fog light" I'm not familiar with. I have too often seen cars coming toward me in front and/or approaching from the rear with bright white lights of bazillion lumens bright enough and aimed high enough to be annoying even in bright sunlight, but the original fogs on my 123 & 126 don't throw a beam far enough nor high enough to flash into anyone's eyes day or night. I've been in front of both of mine, looking at them, trying to find something annoying; all I see is an orange/yellow glow the shape of the lense; no beam in my eyes at all. I think if your're seeing anything else from a real/original fog light, they're too bright or, more likely, aimed too high.

bobbyv 03-18-2001 10:37 PM

driving in heavy rain on the highway, your forward visibility can be drastically reduced by the spray generated by the cars you are following. A rear foglamp is a great help in such situations, as in ... thick fog (!). The spray or fog create glare which reduce your forward visibility. So what i do is put on my Serengetis, and this gives me that oh-so-critical extra few yards of visibility.

i sometimes use the front foglamps at night when i am in a residential area, so i can see better anyone who is attempting to cross the street.

the front fogs are also useful for night driving on winding or zigzag roads, because they illuminate the bends in the road, so you can hit your apexes spot-on. Endurance racecars have driving lamps aimed to the sides for this purpose, also.

because my car is a 1989 model, it does not come with daytime-running lamps (thankfully!). I turn on my front foglamps in overcast or rainy daytime conditions, and these are excellent for being seen because of the wide beam angle.

and by the way, i like the Benz (European?) convention of having brake lights that are separate from the tail lamps, to make night braking more distinguishable to the other drivers. The 3rd high-mounted brakelight helps, for those taillamps with brake lights in the same cell as the taillights (i.e., with double-filament bulbs). The worst designs are the American taillamps, which do not even use amber for turn signals, and blink a group of lamps for this purpose.

now, if i could find a way to (tastefully) add front driving lamps to my 190e, without buying those expensive airdam kits ... that is, without making it look like one of those riced-up hondas ...

CJ 03-18-2001 10:45 PM

Bobbyv,
Try removing the "mason" jar filters that are on your fog lights. I did this and it maorks wonders on the illumination without being obnoxious to oncoming traffic. The yellow light that is in your fog lights is produced by a little cover that goes over your fog lights. This cover looks like a little mason jar. They can be removed, but be careful since the yellow glass is thin. I did that and these lights work better than my POS US spec headlights.


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