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  #1  
Old 03-22-2001, 03:51 AM
Snow bum
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Here and there . . .
Posts: 238
I am looking at purchasing a 1991 300D 2.5 Turbodiesel with 167000 miles. I am familiar with the exceptional reliability of Mercedes diesels (as I own an 81 300SD), but I am not familiar with the 2.5 liter engine, or the 124 chassis. I have heard great things about the 124 chassis, but I have not heard much of anything about the 2.5 engine.

I am taking the car to a trusted mechanic to check it out, but I was wondering if any MercedesShop friends knew of any potential problems that this car may have. Assuming the car has been cared for (which I know it has), what kind of mileage can I expect from it? And what major repairs loom in the future?

Any information will be greatly appreciated.
__________________
Ben

The MBs:
1976 300D (W115) - 330K and still going (sort of)
1991 300D 2.5 Turbo - Sold at 221K
1983 280SEL - Sold at 206K
1981 300SD - Sold at 232K
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  #2  
Old 03-22-2001, 08:19 AM
CJ CJ is offline
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Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Earth
Posts: 1,318
You are in luck, I have a 1991 300D 2.5 and it is a great car. The motor is the 602.962 moyor. Here is a website that may help you.

http://www.mindspring.com/~houlihan/mb.htm

I also know that Johnson Chan on this website has one with about 290,000 miles on it. I had mine for sale a few weeks ago, but when a guy came to purchase it, I realized just how much I love the car.

Good luck!!!
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  #3  
Old 03-22-2001, 06:31 PM
MBenzNL's Avatar
MBenzNL
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: the Netherlands
Posts: 1,417
We have a lot of 250 5-cylinder diesels here. These engines are to be found in the W201, W124 and W202 models. The non-turbo version of these 5-cylinders are fairly good and last quiet long (although not half as long as the 4-cylinder 200 Diesels). We have W124 250D's with more as 800.000km (third manual gear box and second engine since 50.000km).
The head gaskets of these 5-cylinder engines tend to blow once every 300.000km.

The turbo version of the 250 Diesel needs more maintenance as the non-turbo versions. I have seen a lot of these turbo engines with blown head gaskets or worse, with cracked cylinder heads (somewhere between 200-400.000km).

The 124 chassis is a good chassis; no major problems to be expected with that.

Replacing the damaged 300SD?

greetingz,
__________________
1990 300SL-24
1993 C250D
with a minor 600+k kilometer
www.MBenzNL.com
(the Netherlands)
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  #4  
Old 03-22-2001, 09:06 PM
Snow bum
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Here and there . . .
Posts: 238
MBenz, yes I am replacing the wrecked 300SD. Actually, the settlement worked out great. I received more than the cash value of my SD, and I got to keep it. Over the next year or two I will throw together some money and fix it. But until then I need a car to drive, and the 1991 300D is something I have dreamed of for a while.

I can deal with replacing a head gasket, but a cracked head sounds expensive. This engine does have a turbo. Are head problems common with these engines, or are they caused by overheating or something?
__________________
Ben

The MBs:
1976 300D (W115) - 330K and still going (sort of)
1991 300D 2.5 Turbo - Sold at 221K
1983 280SEL - Sold at 206K
1981 300SD - Sold at 232K
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  #5  
Old 03-22-2001, 09:15 PM
CJ CJ is offline
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Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Earth
Posts: 1,318
I would doble check to make sure that we are talking about the same 2.5 diesel. The version that is sold in the US is the 602.962 motor. I have yet to come across one with a blown head gasket.
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  #6  
Old 03-23-2001, 02:03 AM
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Join Date: Jul 2000
Posts: 56
I have owned the same model and year vehicle. It had about 150,000 miles when sold. No major problems. Last repairs included replacement of the serpentine belt tensioner, vacuum shut off control, tank seal on radiator, and one glow plug. I got around 30 MPG whether city or highway. Good car!
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  #7  
Old 03-25-2001, 10:26 AM
MBenzNL's Avatar
MBenzNL
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: the Netherlands
Posts: 1,417
Ben,

It is good to hear that the accident worked out that well for you. It is never fun to get caught in an accident and it doesn't always turn out well in a financial way.

The head problems are not caused by overheating...some of them just crack. Only last month I have seen the following engine problems:
1996 Sprinter 312D/120.000km (a van with 5-cylinder turbo diesel engine and 120hp): cracked piston rings
1997 Vito 108D/80.000km (a van with 4-cylinder non-turbo engine and 80hp): blown head gasket
2000 Sprinter 316D/25.000km (a van with 5-cylinder turbo diesel engine and 160hp): cracked head
1996 E300D (6-cylinder non-turbo): brought in yesterday, but at least a blown head gasket

If the US models are have a different set-up and do not suffer these problems regularly, it is positive information. (my engine is a 605 and I don't know the engine# of the W201 and W124 5-cylinder diesel).

If the car you are looking at is in a good condition, you can certainly give it a try. The average W124 diesel is good for a lot of (comfortable) miles...

greetingz,
__________________
1990 300SL-24
1993 C250D
with a minor 600+k kilometer
www.MBenzNL.com
(the Netherlands)
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  #8  
Old 03-25-2001, 09:11 PM
Johnson Chan
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Well, I have to be the odd ball out again. CJ is correct, I have a 92 300D 2.5 with 290,000. Has it had any major repairs? YES! I had to replace everything on my car, with exception to the engine, but it did have a valve job and another valve job is needed soon.

So far I have spent about $20,000 or so on repairs, parts, labor, etc. on this car. Do I like it? Hmm yes kind of. It isnt too small nor is it too big, gets about 30-36mph (depending how you drive, climate, flat or mountainous roads, etc.)

Overall I guess I can say its a good car. I mean with those kind of miles on it, one would expect to replace a lot of parts. Watch out for the transmission it costs $4000.00 to replace it with parts and labor at the dealership (with new flex disk and new torque converter). Valve jobs are about $2000.00 at dealership.

Cautionary note: Make sure you have it checked out first, if your not carefully, you can EASILY spend more money to fix the car than what you paid for it.
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  #9  
Old 03-26-2001, 01:15 AM
Snow bum
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Here and there . . .
Posts: 238
Johnson Chan, how many miles did your Mercedes have when you purchased it? If you've spent $20,000 over the course of 290,000 miles that doesn't seem too bad. If you've spent $20,000 over the course of 20,000 miles that could be quite a problem.

I'm having the car checked out by my mechanic on Wednesday. I will make my final decision regarding the purchase then.
__________________
Ben

The MBs:
1976 300D (W115) - 330K and still going (sort of)
1991 300D 2.5 Turbo - Sold at 221K
1983 280SEL - Sold at 206K
1981 300SD - Sold at 232K
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  #10  
Old 03-26-2001, 04:01 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 709
Excellent choice for a car to buy Ben,

I bought a 1992(in 1995) with 75K and sold it at 208K(1998)
The only thing I replaced in all those miles was the glow plug regulator(700 at the MB dealer) and a vacuum pump (250.00)...other than that(maintenance items) tires,timing chain,glow plugs ... an excellent car....in fact I would say the 1990-93 300D 2.5 is probably the best compromise between the old and new diesels....all the acceleration,smoothness of the new and the low upkeep dollars of the old.
I think the crucial thing is that the car was taken care of....I always look for one owner,one MB dealer sold and serviced cars....I may pay a little extra but I think it has served me well in regard to obtaining quality cars.


Warren
1992 300SD 111K
turner@greif.com
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  #11  
Old 03-26-2001, 11:05 PM
tex tex is offline
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Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: reno, nv
Posts: 32
I have a 1991 300D 2.5 with 142k mi.
Maintenance and repairs have been
minimal considering the miles.

The 2.5 turbo is quick for a diesel,
and it gets 30+ mpg. The turbo kicks
in at about 2200 rpm. I am pleased
with the performance.

In 80k mi., I have replaced:
flex discs, fuel return lines, plastic
lines to overboost protection, motor mounts,
coolant level sensor, shocks & struts, glow
plugs, and v-belt, plus maintenance items
such as brakes, tires, & filters.

Check the following link to another
300D 2.5 owner's maintenance and repair
records:
http://www.mindspring.com/~houlihan/mb.htm

Have the climate control system checked.
Some w124s have problems in this area.

This engine has an aluminum head.
I have never heard of any head or
head gasket problems with the
602.962 engine. Above, MBenz
discussed head and head gasket
problems with the euro diesels.
I appreciate his experience, and
I am curious why we have not had
similar problems with the 902.962
engine in the US.

Watch for problems with the
plastic radiator neck in the w124's,
which tends to crack. Replacement
radiators have a metal reinforcement
sleeve. Overheating could cause
problems with the aluminum head.

Good luck
Darrell
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  #12  
Old 03-26-2001, 11:41 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: Los Angeles, Calif, USA
Posts: 521
My research indicated that the 90's 5 cyl 2.5L diesel (602) engines do not have unusual head problem. The chance of getting a cracked head is no more than other engines with aluminum head. However, the early 603 (6 cyl) engine (no info on early 602 engine), as in 87 300D, has a problem with cracked head due to design. Sometimes, it just cracks, overheated or not. The replacement head should be better.

David
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  #13  
Old 03-29-2001, 10:35 AM
Snow bum
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Here and there . . .
Posts: 238
I am going down to Al's ******** to have Al inspect the car today. If all goes well I will buy it this afternoon. I will update later tonight.
__________________
Ben

The MBs:
1976 300D (W115) - 330K and still going (sort of)
1991 300D 2.5 Turbo - Sold at 221K
1983 280SEL - Sold at 206K
1981 300SD - Sold at 232K
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  #14  
Old 03-29-2001, 04:19 PM
Snow bum
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Here and there . . .
Posts: 238
Well, I had Al check the car out and the results are great.

Compression: 320 on all 5 cylinders

Items needing repair:
Oil pressure sending unit leaking - $45
Injection pump leaking (bottom plate) - $240
Steering return hose leaking - $60
Motor mounts collapsed - $320
Differential mounts bad - $275
Power steering pump leaking - $350

Everything else on the car checked out fine, and Al did an extremely thourough inspection. The estimates he gave me on repairs include parts and labor, and are quite liberal. Al likes to estimate the largest possible charge so there won't be any surprises.

Excluding the oil pressure sending unit leak, none of the repairs are urgent. All of the leaks are slow. They amount to a drop or two coming off of the bottom engine cover every couple of days.

I checked at the local MB dealer, and the owner has had it serviced at a MB dealership every 2500 miles. I would have bought the car today, but there was a problem at the bank. I should have it tomorrow or Monday.
__________________
Ben

The MBs:
1976 300D (W115) - 330K and still going (sort of)
1991 300D 2.5 Turbo - Sold at 221K
1983 280SEL - Sold at 206K
1981 300SD - Sold at 232K
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