Subframe question...
 

Hello all,
The front subframe on my '82 380SL broke yesterday, the left rear 'A' frame mounting tab broke off, leaving the 'A' frame on the pavement when I was taking my granddaughter to school. I called MBUSA, and they said the car isn't eligible for the subframe recall - what other cars use the same subframe - maybe I can find a good used one in a wrecking yard? I did call the local MB parts guy and ordered the subframe strengthing kit ($87) and I'd like to start off with a good subframe to strengthen! Does the 380SEL or 380SE interchange??

Thanks,

No expert here...
 

...but I am believing that any 107 up to the 85 is the same? I think something changed with the intro of the 560.

I am only a little surprised that MBUSA blew you off - you might get somewhere though if you raise holy hell. Search here and at sl107(dot) com - I swear somebody got some warranty/safety recall relief fairly recently..

Kevin

i dont know for sure, but the front suspension on the 107 when i have looked at one looks a lot like a 115 suspension, not at all like a 380se or sel.

tom w

Hi again,
The local inde is the one that told me he thought it might be the same as the 380SEL, it reminds me a lot of the front suspension on my '75 280C. I called the local Foster Auto Parts, and they said it is the same as some other cars, but wouldn't give me the interchange. I guess I'll have to call a yard that specializes in Mercedes parts.

The front end and rear suspesion is the same as the w114 and w115 cars. E.g. a 1969 220D. The big tires and heavy weight of the v-8 107 models is just too much stress on the control arm mounts. The 107 subframe used to even have a 115 part number. The major change is that the 107 had vented rotors. The 560 might be different however, as they had a redesigned rear suspension. Replacing the subframe is a big $$$ job due to the labor involved.

Subframe swap.
 

Somewhere in that SL site is a pic step by step description of a subframe swap,you don't even have to pull the engine.
Undo the four mounts,diconnect your brakes ,support the engine from above disconnect the engine mounts,'Disconnect the steering and check the steering box mounts while you're there and the installation is a reverse.
Use a used subframe from a W115 ( four cylinder car but NOT a diesel) and you may even locate one with "A" arm joints etc.Order a new mount bush kit and change the rubbers while you are there.I think you'll find that the joint broke as result of worn bushes on the "A" arms.
It's a weekends work for the DIY enthusiast ,a proper Merc shop can do it in 4 hours ,including alignment .The hold up is whether or not you used a new part or had an old part cleaned up and repainted etc.

aha!

cool

tom w

Hi there,
I found a front subframe from a 115 - it IS a diesel, though. Mercmad6.3, why did you exclude the diesel subframe? I hope the difference is minor, as I already paid for this one. To all appearances it is identical, but of course since it was still in the car it's hard to tell for sure.

Hi,the only reason I suggested using any other subframe ,apart from a Diesel part,was that I often find the diesel cars have been former taxi's and the subframes have done millions of miles...:D , being in the US that would hardly be the case for you I guess.:)
Good luck!!

Hi - The car I'm getting the subframe from is a nice clean car, low miles, and no oil leaks, so I think it will be a good donor. The yard should have it pulled for me on Monday, also the strengthing kit is at the dealer's, so I'll pick it up on Monday also. Should be able to get the car back together sometime this coming week. I'm thinking I should install new motor mounts at the same time, also new lower control arm bushings, although the old ones do look ok. I have a new subframe bushing kit on hand also. I will for sure check out the steering gear adjustments while in there. I will also have to spring for new front tires, as the old ones wore down on the inside inch or so right to the steel cords - they were fine before my last trip of 8 miles or so! I'll try to remember to take some pictures!

Before you spend any more money you might want to check again on the subframe recall that MB has had for years. I have a '73 450SL that I took in for service at an MB dealer. They called and told me they ran the serial number on the car and that the subframe had never been updated. The only cost to me was for some rubber bushings or something small like that. Interesting that the dealer would check on this on their own. Might have been a slow day in the shop and they needed some recall money from the MB mothership.

Hi there,
No joy on the recall, it only went through 1980, they didn't change the part for 1981 and newer, just put a lighter engine in the car, and apparently feel it's good enough. I called both MBUSA's NJ number and the local dealer, they both said there are no recall issues on the 1982 car. I would recommend to all 380SL and 560SL owners that they keep a close eye on the front subframe's lower control arm rear attaching points, looking for cracks. There isn't much metal holding the arms on at the rear, and it's pretty thin stuff to boot! That's why I am going to start off with a known good subframe and then add the strengthening kit to it.

Richard Woolridge said: No joy on the recall, it only went through 1980
________________________________________________________________
As I mentioned earlier, I had the subframe fix done at no charge on my '73 450SL when I took it into an MB dealership for some minor service work and that was in 1998....so they were still doing the recall upgrade free as of then.

The recall itself is still open, but it only applies to cars with the cast iron engine, IE through 1980 MODEL YEARS.... not the 1981 - 1989 cars...

That is correct. The recall never included the aluminum engine. In the early days MB would onlr weld in braces if the crack was barely visible, so we used to open em up with a cold chisel before sending them in to the dealer. That way the subframe was replaced under warrantee.

That was nice of you. I wish the indy Mercedes shop that used to work on my cars had done that on my '77 450SL. The charged me a few hundred to "fix" the subframe, instead of sending me to the dealer. All they did was mig weld some scrap steel to reinforce the subframe. That's why they don't work my vehicles anymore.

I'm sure they meant well, but like many Indies, they probably weren't praticed on their reading skills. To stay on top of things in this business, you have to read as much available information as possible. The one thing that Independent shops do that really bugs me is to install a shop version lock when someone's ignition tumbler needs replacing. It takes a few more minutes, but the right way is to order a lock coded to the VIN so people don't end up with two different keys like they own a Ford oe something.

Hi - I got the "reinforcement kit" from the dealer yesterday - it consists of four very small pieces of metal, about 3/4 x 2 x 3/32, formed to fit next to the existing tabs, that are to be mig welded on to the subframe and tab. Probably your inde didn't want to spend the $110 for four pieces of metal that look like they should cost maybe $5 - $10 at the most! I had illusions of the reinforcing kit actually increasing the thickness of the existing tabs, but such is not the case. The metal just goes on the ends of what's there. The instructions do say they must be mig welded on. Now if Portland Import Auto Wreckers can just come through on the subframe I'll be set to start on the car...

If you knew the shop, you would be amazed. They have factory trained owners who have been working on 450SL models since they switched over to CIS in 1976. I even asked about the recall, and they were aware of it. They told me that the replacement would be as unsafe as the original, and that that would make it better than factory. I can give them credit for ordering vin coded tumblers from the dealer. Once, after spending almost a thousand dollars for a ignition tune up and co mixture set up on the scope, I was told that they didn't bother to replace the twelve year old spark plus, and that I should do that when I got home.

so in your book the spark plug thing is a good thing?

tom w

Sorry, I should have been more clear.

No, it's not a good thing that they didn't change the plugs. That's because the new plugs changed the way the car ran, and I had to reset the co mixture and ignition timing again, that's after I paid this shop over $200.00 in labor to set the timing and fuel mixture. The mechanic that worked on my car war arrested for dui a few weeks later.

Richard ,this internet thing shows how small this world really is.I have a freind in
Portland ,who uses MBI services ( Larry is the head mechanic) for his 6.3, he has several actually , and won't trust any one else.But I also have a freind living in Battleground who comes from Brisbane and is mad on drag racing...and he's raced my friend from Portland on occasion.You can't miss the guys in Battleground,they're MAD MAX fanatics.