totaled out benz..will miss greatly
 

Hi guys..

Well my decision is to receive a cash out for $4200. insur co did raise the amount from $2500.I'm unable to buy car back because the insur co. is going to salvage and sell my benz as a parts only car.

I wil miss my benz dearly..but it's time to say good-bye..
All this for an air-bag deployment.

Bought an awesome 1993 Lexus SC300 .... now off to the Lexus forums.

Thanks again for all your help...this has been a great forum.. :)

You'll be back
 

japanische Autos bringen's nicht!

Your getting screwed. An airbag deployment does not total a car. Make the insurance company give you a unscathed title and buy an airbag from a junk yard and keep about $4000 in profit.

Not true! Front flex disc failure resulting in airbag deployment can cause SEVERE damage to the vehicle underbody. Also, just replacing the airbag won't help. The SRS control module must be replaced as well. The cost of the parts, in addition to the probable underbody damage make this one a "no-brainer" for the insurance company, given the age of the car.

Perhaps if your not real bright and use NEW parts on a 15+ year old car purchased diretly from an expensive retail source. The car in question will go straight to a rebuilder the title will be washed to get rid of the salvage and the repairs will be made and then the car will go to an auto auction and then a dealer. The insurance industry and the rebuilders are in bed with one another. The insurance companies total cars that are repairable and the rebuilders buy them patch them back together and sell them to consumers at a hefty profit. The insurance companies love this because they can total a car quickly sell the wreck just as quickly and rip the consumer off by starting negotiaions off under wholesale value on the car.

Even with "Severe" underbody damage the airbag and module could be replaced and any collateral damage could be repaired (brake cables and exhaust damage) and the car would still be quite safe to drive.

To the original owner. If you want to see something real amusing wait about 6 months and do a carfax on your VIN. You will be amazed to see it has a washed title and its probably registered to its new owner in another state.

The insurance companies and rebuilders have been defrauding consumers for years like this and will continue not matter what laws are put into place and no matter how carfax tries to adapt. There are too many loopholes in state laws and the vehicles are moved around a lot to take advantage of these laws.

Hope your o.k. and good luck

If what you say is true, the next owner (if there will ever be one) will be the one who gets screwed, not cangold. No reputable shop will install used parts on an airbag system. As far as the underbody damage is concerned, don't kid yourself. Every car I've seen this happen to actually had the sheet metal above the driveshaft sliced wide open. The interior wiring beneath the center console was shredded to bits. Two of them had the transmission housing broken. The shift rod, driveshaft, and exhaust system also had severe damage. The cars were all totalled partly because of the cost, but mostly because they couldn't be fixed properly.

How about flood damaged cars?
 

Hey, Iluvmils, how about flood-totaled cars. I expect there are plenty of those on used car lots around the country these days. Can they be patched together well enough to seem to be in good condition only to begin falling apart after the sale?

I'm not sure exactly what the issues are, but presumably the electronics don't fair too well after flooding.

air bag deployment is almost always results in a total in a 5-7 year plus old car....

Mostly this is profit and liability generated. If you buy a used car your also buying a used airbag. That's dangerous right? <eyeroll>

I don't trust insurance companies and I don't trust CarFax.

The damage caused by saltwater is devastating. Electrical connectors begin to corrode after just a few hours, but the SMELL is horrendous. I've seen lots of cars totalled because they sat in just a foot or so of saltwater. The insurance adjusters don't waste much time inspecting these cars. They know the car is junk.

With the 220 S-Class you don't even need a flood to cause flood damage!!! The water drain at the front cowl can get clogged by leaves and other stuff. When this happens, rain water pours into the front passengers footwell area and works it's way back to the rear SAM and fuse box. ML's have similar issues (but without all the electronics!). A car in this condition that sits in a downpour for just a few hours can be considered a flood victim.
Since it's fresh water though, the carpets can be removed and cleaned, the water-logged electronics replaced, and everything is fine. I've got several clients' who have gone through this and haven't had any water related issues since.

I've never had to inspect a car that's been underwater completely, but the amount of work needed to make it presentable would be far too great to be considered "patched together". It's hard for me to imagine a modern MB that's been thoroughly soaked, would function normally for a short time and then develop problems. I think you'd have some pretty serious issues right away. But hey, that's only my opinion.

How did this happen? They raised the amount?

I have been on the gulf coast for the last couple months and seen a number of "flood cars", and storm damage. They go the whole range from total swamp muck junk to good looking cars that don't seem to have gotten wet. I suspect that some of them were taken in "general roundups", that is, I think that some areas were declared that all cars in the area were totaled without much inspection.

I saw one I would have bought but don't have an empty stall in the barn right now.

Charming. Yet another reason not to buy a 220 other than the fact that it feels so cheap in comparision to a 140. :)

Even worse than water is chlorine gas. I had a friend that's car was involved in a chlorine gas accident. Everything metal in the car started to corrode like it was in salt water for years.

Water damage is one of those things that people over react to. Its not the water that really gets you its the silt and dirt that the water brings with it into your engine and transmission that gets you. Most people hear water damage and run screaming. If junior decided to see how fast daddy's car would fill through the sunroof its much less of a nightmare than a car that went through katrina and has 2 inch thick layer of mud all over it.

I self insure as much as I can. Insurance companies are a for profit business and have no ethical or moral qualms about ripping someone off. Unless I have a loan company that requires full coverage or unless I am driving a car I can't afford to loose I self insure.

When you consider cars like ours it makes even more sense. For example you wreck your car and its not repairable. You take the amount the car is currently worth and subtract that for the scrap value you got for the car (many of our cars are worth a lot in parts) and that is your loss. Many people underestimate the value of a wreck and underestimate how easily it can be sold. Many of us would only be out a couple of grand in an accident and have paid much more than that over the years in insurance premiums. Just like in Vegas the house (the insurance company) always wins. Over a period of time the amount you spend in premiums will ALWAYS be higher than the amount the company pays out.

Carfax is a nice try but because of all the loopholes and the way that the insurance companies and recyclers work the rules I don't trust it 100%. If your terribly afraid of buying a wrecked car go buy a new one. Its interesting the hysteria involved in vehicles that have involved in collisions.

Water damage is ok as long as it is not salt water damage. After only several days, the salt water starts to attack cylinder bores, cranks and cams. If they are recovered quickly, they can be flushed. In the hurricane zones, there were two types of damage. Flood and impact. People were buying flooded out boats/cars, then replacing the drive trains with dry components from crushed boats/cars.

Am I missing something?
 

As someone else in the forum suggested a while back, why not disconnect the air bags in older Benz and avoid the potential problem? Sure, it's a safety item, but I don't believe that it is an inspection item in most or any states that I know of. We drive cars without the air bags every day if they are a little older. It appears that the car salvagers know how easy it is to disable these items; why not just do it or have it done by a mechanic?

A buddy bought a previously freshwater flooded 420SEL last year. It was........okay. No signs inside, but plenty outside and on the drivetrain. It had a few funky electical gremlins, but nothing major. When we removed the engine covers to replace the shocks, there was a thick film of schlugunk on the shock towers. There was unusual rust/crud in crevices of the undercarriage in places normally pristine because they're so protected. If you didn't know cars well and didn't know what to look for, most people would never have known it had been flooded. Two months ago, the tranny quit going into final gear, so he auctioned it off out of frustration (and fear).

Two years ago, I bought a theft recovery vehicle. Legally, it showed theft recovery, but I knew the history, and it had actually been abandoned - but the local DMV couldn't figure out how to 'code' the paperwork, so they simply tagged it 'theft.' It was a great car, but I decided to sell after about a year. Just for fun, I ran a Carfax ..........which, among other things stated, "THIS CAR IS IDENTIFIED AS A STOLEN VEHICLE! REPORT THIS INFORMATION TO LAW ENFORCEMENT IMMEDIATELY!', or something to that effect. I sold it without problems, but it certainly soured me on Carfax.

Hmmm or even better than that if you drive a 124 with airbags why not replace your flex discs before they fail and avoid the issues all together?

I personally think its kind of dumb to remove saftey components. I also think its kind of dumb to obsess over a used airbag. The simple fact of the matter is there is no real research about how long an airbag will really last. The replacement suggestions from the car makers are generated out of a need for profit and a need to avoid legal liability NOT on science. The moment you drive your car off the lot your whole car becomes used including your airbag.

I used to work in the supercomputer industry and many of the supercomputers I worked with were used to "simulate" car collisions. Even with the multimillion dollar hardware plugged into all of the most realistic calculations based on the known laws of phyisics the cars sometimes crashed differently than they did in the simulation. This tells us that the universe is far more complex than we can comprehend even with our machines and trained engineers.

My point to this is this. Whats worse an airbag popping in your face and causing a minor fender bender accident or being involved in a collison with a tractor trailer without an airbag and being crushed to death by your steering wheel and dashboard because your airbag did not deploy? Since you can't calculate or reasonably guess everything that may happen to you in the future its best to be somewhat prepared for anything. While its unlikely you would be involved in a severe accident where your airbag would be needed would you be willing to bet your life on that?

The reason no shop would consider a used airbag is because of the possibility of a lawsuit. It cheaper refuse to work on it, then pay to defend ones self in a lawsuit if such a used airbag were to fail.

I suspect in this case more was wrong than just an airbag. As said above when a drivesahft fails lots of things get damaged.

I would never consider a flood car, I don't care what kind of deal I was given.

If you are not confident in evaluating possible damage, stay away. But, just because it says flood damage in the history does not mean the car got wet. It just means it was towed out of a flood zone. Some of the flood cars are toast and I wouldn't even want many parts off of them. Others are not bad deals. I have no idea what the ratio of good to bad would be.

I have looked at a lot of them but I have never bought a car with a salvage title of any kind.

CARFAX is only moderately trustworthy, I don't think it could be relied upon too much, it is just a pretty good idea as to what may have happened. DMV input errors can mess it up pretty well, I have seen that. Like garbage in, garbage out.

As to Airbags, the Honda Accords and Toyota Camrys are really high up on the theft ladder because of their value for high dollar parts, like AIRBAGS that can be bought by body shops and reinstalled on wrecked cars

I wouldn't want to deal with a car that had been in a flood, I guess its not just a matter of rust, electric gremlins but also one of dirt and uncleanliness!!

I could spot one a mile away. I simply would not consider a car that has been under any kind of water for any period of time. To many expensive computers I don't want to deal with it.


Take a W211 that was soaked in the sludge known as water that filled New Orleans. Such a car is more or less scrap metal.

My 126 was filled with water when I bought it. Many of the seals had failed and rainwater had started to pour into the interior over many years. The original owner of my car had passed away and the car had been an asset of his estate stuck in probate court. I almost considered not buying the car for this reason (the condensation on the inside of the windows was quite disconcerting). Once the water was cleaned up and the car was fully dried inside it was absolutely fine. No visiable water damage inside the car at all and its been one of the most reliable and cheap to maintain cars I have ever owned. For all intents and purposes it was a flood car.

People tend to get hysterical when it comes to water damage. They go on and on about toxic mold and the horrible expensive damage that happens to the car. Once you completely dry out the car its not really a big deal. Mold needs moisture to survive. If your car was covered in mold a nice trip to Arizona or Texas would dry the car out in a couple of days and kill all of it.

I also collect antiques and water damage is a fact of life when it comes to a 200+ year old piece of furniture. Even pieces of furniture that are in museums have been wet in some parts of their lives. Air conditioning is a recent invention and it was quite common for moisture to condense inside cool dark places where people like to congregate. Leaky roofs and flood waters also contributed to this. Its good people were not so hysterical over water damage back then otherwise some beautiful treasures would have been tossed in the trash in an effort to score some cash and new furniture from the insurance company.

Sludge and mud are a different story all together. Its nearly impossible to remove that from a car due to all the hidden spaces inside.

Their is a world of difference between that 300SD and a modern car. The SD's most complicated electrical device inside is the radio. Say that 2005 E320CDI that I saw on Ebay a few months back that had been under water for a few days, well maybe $10k could replace enough computers to get it running.

Perhaps if you used brand new parts. A wrecked donor car could provide a wealth of electronic components and even allow you to profit from the venture by selling off other useful parts. The other thing most people don't keep in mind is electronic components are perfectly ok when they get wet. The thing that gets you is the water shorting the circuits because most modern cars are "always on". Not all the electronic components are going to be powered up at any given time while a car is parked and some of them would be fine if given ample time to dry before attempting to start the car. If you do any long term storage of vehicles you have to do the same kind of "careful starting" that you might have to if your car gets wet. Starting a classic car thats been sitting 20 years is just as destructive as starting a highly electronic car thats just been wet.

Just like any other mechanical issue the price goes up astronomically if you run into the Mercedes dealer or greedy independant mechanic and exclaim "oh my goodness my car got flooded please help me". :)

My 140 is well designed with a battery mounted low in the trunk and most of its computerized components mounted high behind the dash. Its likely that water would short the battery before moving to the more expensive electronics higher up in the car. In the event that my car got flooded I would disconnect the battery and have it towed to an independant mechanic preferably in a state with low humidity to assess the problems before dooming it to the boneyard.

Sure you can dry it out. What about the smell? The interior usualy is scrap.

Two things I simply refuse to ever buy, a car that has been under water, and a boat that has been under water. Both are a never ending electrical nightmare. I'd rather not put myself through, so I just won't buy one. I'll leave the flood cars to the ambitios people who want a challange.

My 126 does not smell at all. The smell comes from bacteria. Bacteria need water in order to survive. A month in a low humidity enviroment and there would be no smell.

Again I think we have a communications issue here. You equate a "flood car" as any car that has had water in it at all when in reality the flood cars that are really problematic are the ones that have had salt water in them or muddy water in them.

My 126 has been the most reliable car I have ever owned in my life. I just hate it when old wives tales suddenly become "fact" when it comes to urban legends like the notorious "flood car". :(

In my book a flood car is any car that has sat in water deep enough for said water to enter the passanger compartment. IE if you were sitting in the drivers seat your feet would be wet.

In my book once the water is up to the dash on a modern computer filled car it is scrap metal.

Salt water of course is the worst. But the sludge that was floating around New Orleans was pretty foul.

So I guess you'd never buy a used submarine....:eek: :D :eek:

Doesn't make a difference with subs. The only ones you can usualy buy are Russian or Chiness, and they are junk with wiring issues new.:D

Your book, your world.

In the real real world a flood car is a car sold at a salvage auction after it is released from an insuance company with documentation that says the car was damaged in a flood. It's a dealer thing, salvage auctions are generally open only to dealers.

Good I6, PITA to keep up with the car. I work on a '96 LS400

Heh heh,

You would not have bought the Caddilac rental car then that I turned in at the airport. I opened the drivers door and water started flowing right in. There was a torrential downpour at the airport and it got high enough to get to the doorsills. :)

Yep,

I have seen dealers doing the "hose and hose". You rinse out the interior of the car with a hose to get the smell and dirt out and then you hose your customer by selling them a car that you cleaned with a garden hose. Then they fill the car with a full tank of gas and leave it idling behind the dealership with the A/C and heat on full blast. Even with a carfax you could be buying a "flood car" and not knowing it. The best policy is to actually inspect the car you buy.

You actually saw this being done??? Was it an MB new car dealer, or a used car lot? Anyone who takes a garden hose to the interior of a modern MB will only be creating more problems. Something sure does smell funny here, and it's not the car!!!

In a previous life I used to be a car dealer. :(

Not to name names but I spent some time at a new car dealership. In addition to "lot stocking" where they buy "high end" used cars at an auction and put them on the preowned lot to make their crummy American made new cars look like someone would be willing to drive them they did all sorts of things to actual trade ins to make them saleable. I did not stick around long at the domestic lot mainly because of the sleazy business tactics and because of their high pressure sales tactics. In fact the sales manager there once asked me to buy a car just so we could make our sales numbers. He was pretty shocked when I told him that I would not want one of their cars even if it was given to me. They always wondered why I turned down the demo's and drove home in my 24 year old Mercedes every night and that was confirmation for them.

In comparison to what they did in the finance office the crapy used car that had been cleaned with a garden hose and shop vac was a cream puff. You can fix a car with mechanical problems but you really can't fix loans with huge balloon payments or financing the last three cars you bought on your current loan stretched out to 7 years. Many many unlucky people got both of them together. You can sell a bad used car but until you pay the loan off the collections people will be after you forever if you don't pay. :eek:

I wanted to sell Mercedes cars but the MB dealers here in town usually want people with lots of experience. I was not really willing to sell my soul and rip thousands of people off for the chance to sell for Mercedes. So I went back to the Technology industry where I don't have to lie and steal to make a living. It was an interesting and eye opening diversion while the tech market had gone to He** in a handbasket. :wacko:

Lot stocking hmm now that makes sense. I always wondered how the GM/Ford dealers got late model E55's, S600's ect. I can't imagin someone would trade one in at a GM dealer, heck you could almost buy a few Z06's for what an S600 trade is worth. Who trades an E55 in on a Ford? Come on $90k super sedan for what? Three F150's??:confused:

Now it makes sense.

I happen to know a used car dealer, he is a nice guy, likes MB's a lot. His stock is nice and he doesn't seem to pull much BS, actualy he prides himself on getting low mileage, one owner, no BS cars. I guess he is a rare bird these days.

Exactly. If you notice they usually put all the nice cars on the front row as well. Those are the cars that get people "in the door" (how many people's dream car is a brand new Ford Taurus?) and when they find out they can't possibly afford them because of the outragous pricing (well above fair retail for even a Starmarked car) and really horrible used car financing they get "pulled" over to the new section where they have more buying power. Occasionally you will get someone dumb enough to buy one of them or they get tired of looking at them and lower the price to something reasonable to make room for some newer cars to lure people in. Trade ins at a domestic car dealership are usually either 2-5 year old domestic cars and they are usually totally ragged out.

All dealerships are different. I bought my 126 from an Arab guy that does the same thing. Mostly Mercedes BMW and Landrovers. These low end used lots all buy from the same auctions so watch out about their claims about one owner because they have no idea about that. Most low mileage one owner cars never make it to the local auctions to begin with. Auctions are generally stocked by car dealers that dump units they don't want to the auction house. It all depends on the dealerships. Most of the "one owner" cars that are anything worth writing home about get bought by the sales staff or get sold to friends and family of the sales staff. A friend of mine just bought a 40K 107 SL in pristine condition that was traded in at a Local MB dealer. It went from a salesman from the MB dealer to his friend a salesman at a VW dealership and then to its current owner who happened to know him. Even after being traded in and sold by two car dealers he still got a steal of a deal on it.

As for trade in values. The reason why these dealerships have to lot stock is because of the laughable trade in amounts they offer for cars. Nobody in their right mind is going to take 20K for their late model S600. These car dealers would rather get their cars at auction than pay a dime more to a customer than they have to.

If you want a good used car value I would try going to a local car dealer that does swift business but is willing to put other makers cars on their lot. Here you may get a good deal on a one owner reasonable milage trade in that the dealer would rather liquidate to the public for a small profit rather than sell it to the auction for one of his competitors to make a profit off of it. Most high end Mercedes, BMW and Volvo dealers only want their manafacturers car on the lot and usually only a few years old with low mileage. Some of the middle of the road dealers put other makers cars on the lot. I bought my 140 at a BMW dealership that had changed ownership to a company that owns many different dealerships in the Atlanta area. They sent some of the lower end cars to auction but kept as many of the nicer cars at their lot. They had everything from one year old Honda Accords to an S class Coupe to Volvos and Jaguars. All of them usually traded in on new BMW's. I bought my 1999 S320 for thousands under book price because they were selling a lot of new BMW's and their used cars were going slow and the lot was getting quite crowded.

My experience is mostly based on the Atlanta market. Many people in the Northeast will pay $10K for a 123 wagon so I take it that market is quite different considering the rust problems and other issues they have there. Im guessing though that the auctions and dealers operate similarly though.

i have always preferred to buy from private parties, my reasoning being that they will be less good at hiding things and lying.

but the worst lemon i ever bought was from a private party, so they can hide things too.

probably the only true lemon i have ever bought come to think of it. the 85 ford van with 6.9 diesel with cracked block.

tom w

I gave them 3 comparable 300E being sold, $4000-$7000 and had a MB Dealer work one up for $4200..
I feel better knowing I took the $$$$...the trans was also slipping