I agree with that..they tend to be boring
I drove a few LS400's and a couple of GS400's this last time around
However they are getting better in regard to that as time goes...and in terms of long term reliability they seem to be tops.
I have seen LS 400's with in excess of 200K miles and the interiors and trimwork seem to hold up well.
I have to say though if you have ever had to pay for many repairs on a 140 out of your own pocket..then maybe you might say boring is not a bad thing


Warren
2000 BMW 740I sport
1992 300SD( sold)
1992 300D ( sold)
1985 300SD( sold)
Columbus Ohio

Those are nice and rather cheap to obtain. I was looking at 1995-1998 XJ6's and XJ8's and had one picked out until I did the test drive. It was a 1998 model and was smooth as glass and handled and drove like a dream. The only problem was the way the center pillar of the car intruded into the passengers compartment and constantly rubbed and bumped my elbow. I did not buy the car and ironically the salesman mentioned that tall people have problems even with the Vanden Plas body because of the intruding center pillar. Im about 6'0" tall and was surpised to have a problem with a car because of being "tall".

The cars are even kind of reliable after Ford got involved. Before you dive in though check parts prices. And you thought Volvo and W140 parts were expensive?

I second the idea. If you dont know what you are buying- the notion is correct. My indie bought a one owner 1978 280SE manual tranny euro model with 37K/ no rust for $1200. Not a thing wrong with it... should he have passed on it because it was "cheap"?

Jag lovers is an excellent forum, every bit as good as this one. Jags are not different than MB, they have there weak points. But amoung Jag fans the 2000+ XJ8's have an awsome reputation for reliability! These are not Fords, the only Ford part on these cars is the oil pan drain plug.

The trans are not that much different than the 722.6, dealer charged my grandparents $6k last year to change theres. But of course done yourself that price could probably be cut in half. Jag parts also cost more than MB parts.

__________________
1999 SL500
1969 280SE
2023 Ram 1500
2007 Tiara 3200

Rchase,

Regarding your twinkies analogy, I don't really want to debate which manufacturer is better, a Mercedes or Honda. The Japs didn't start making cars to compete with MB until 1988 with the Acura's. The Jap luxury cars, though good from the start, probably didn't BEGIN to hit their stride until 1992or so, and I think around 1997 they got even better.

I would think today (I can't afford a new car, so I won't know for sure) that Lexus provides a much better vehicle than MB. I can't think of anything MB could really offer to outdo the Jap luxury cars (Lexus, Infinity, Acura), but again, I really don't know, I've never driven them nor do I intend to.

That all said, twinkie or high quality pastry chef, take a look at some repairs that I've never had to do with ANY car, except a MB. We'll have to agree to disagree then, that I think these things shouldn't have happened in the first place by a manufacturer that puts themselves out there as being a #1 car.

1988 300 CE, when it was 10 years old and just 90k on it. (I sold it in 1998).

Oil gaskets, upper and lower $600
Transmission gasket leak $500
A/c problem $500
Broken seatbelt part $30
Inner and Outer CV joints $200
Crummy radio and speakers, came standard on this high quality car

Now for my 1991 300 d, my current car with just 95k on it.

a/c problem $1200
seatbelt retraction problem $50
power steering leak $300
Center link on steering rods $280
The car is on its 3rd dampner (holds the serpentine belt with correct tension)
Dashboard light out (small, but I've never had to replace one on any other car)
Seat spring problem, hurts my rear end after just 15 minutes. Will have to be looked at.
Crummy radio and speakers, came standard. Painful, will have to replace.
Fuses got old, caused problems, had to replace. Not expensive, but I've
never had to do that with any other car in my whole entire life.


Work done on my 1988 Toyota Camry with 166,000 miles on it (recently sold it): Oil gasket leak, easy fix, $20, New CV joints needed at 155k $300,
a/c worked great, needed nothing. Car purred like a kitten.

Work on my 1990 Acura Legend. Had it up to 100k miles. Needed nothing.

I've owned several other Camry's, with 80k on them, needed nothing.

Several Honda Accords, up to 90k. Needed nothing.

1999 Toyota Avalon sold at 40k, needed nothing.

All of those Jap cars are easy candidates to get what the MB is capable of, 300k miles (the diesels can go more, but I understand they need rebuilt around 300k).

I admit the Mercedes has a nicer feel than a Camry or Accord, but they're not in the same class, either. If you compare a 1991 MB to a 1991 Jap car, the MB would probably win, by a bit, as far as how it handles, quiet, etc. But I'll bet by 1997 or so, the gap narrowed. MB still made cars with bad a/c's, and they made the entire cars WORSE from what I've heard. They went DOWN in quality while the Japs went up. I'm figuring at this point, the luxury Jap cars are far better. I even heard MB changed their steering box to a power steering unit similar to Jap cars.

MB's of today (current models like from 1997 and forward) are nothing but a nameplate at this point from what I've heard. You're paying at least 15,000 for a 3 star circle. As to the older cars, in my view, which is different from yours and that's okay, they require more repairs than they should. Problems such as a/c should have been addressed when problems were found. But they weren't. Seat springs, ditto. Oil gaskets, ditto. But it's just my opinion, and that's all I have to say about it. Goodbye.

jeff

To suggest that MBs are nothing but a nameplate from 1997 is just pure poppycock. It was 1996.

The gap between a 2006 Acura MDX and BMW X5 is pretty wide, the Acura is a step down. The Germans still have it, the old ML was a pos, the new one is rather nice. Still not an ML fan.

I sudjest one actualy drive and live with a late model MB for a while before passing judgment. The W140 is a BETTER car than my W126 in so many ways. Buy both and you will understand. The new W221 makes my old W126 look and feel cheap. The interior is in on a whole other level.

My dads friends son just turned 16 and got a 1989 Camry. Yeah it does get you there I gues, makes a bike look tempting though.

__________________
1999 SL500
1969 280SE
2023 Ram 1500
2007 Tiara 3200

No, I never did buy it. After hearing that $12K was way too steep, I totally marked it off of my lists. THEN, the same MERCEDES dealership had/has a 1994 S420, with 149K for $4995. Stated to be original owner, excellent condition, well maintained, ALL RECORDS, like new, black on black. I have saw photos and it is a beautiful car.

Then everyone started telling me about the A/C horror stories and the interior and underhood wiring woes and I thought that this car may end up putting me in bankruptcy with repair costs. What I do not understand- why if the A/C (removal of the entire dash) and the wiring woes are so common on these cars- why has NHTSA not demanded a recall? Especially on the wiring, which could be a safety hazard.

Who knows, since this was a 1-owner, well maintained car, I suppose its possible that all of these things have already been addressed, OR it may be why the owner is selling it.

UPDATE- I just went to their website and the mentioned black Mercedes above has been SOLD. I made a mistake on the miles though. It had 164K. Hopefully whoever bought it will not have to deal with these woes.

I guess it all depends on what is a priority to you
Do you want to drive something 200K( or more) and not have to spend any money on it for the most part?
or does a few( maybe several) thousand dollars in repairs bother you at all?

As for the comment about someone listing 15 years of repairs on their car...trust me if you had owned a 140 for 5-6 years you would know that you would pray for a repair list like that in 15 years.

And by the way the comment about the good stereo....always been an issue with me on why the older cars had such crappy stereos....they FINALLY got a clue in 1992 with the 140 and in 1996 with the 210

But I have to say that for the used car selling prices right now on the 140( and even the newer 220) its one heck of a buy even if you have to do an ac evap core....but ones older that 1997 have probably already had that done at least once anyway.
I have never known anyone who had a 140 older than 6 years old that has had not had to have the AC evap done...my personal car had it done twice....once under the orginal owner when the car was 3 years old and once when I owned it whan the car was 7 years old.

But getting back to the used cars values...still a heck of a car and I think the prevailing prices are becuse people know that you need a reserve for repairs when you buy one. Based on early 220 prices currently...(20-25K) with 70-80K miles it seems that the same applies.
I was looking at a 2001 S500 this morning with 85K miles for $22,500..original sticker was $92,000...one owner ..great condition..thats 75% off


Warren
2000 BMW 740I
1992 300SD( sold)
1992 300D( sold)
1985 300SD( sold)
Columbus Ohio