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-   -   Crazy idea for AMG engine swap? (http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/tech-help/172008-crazy-idea-amg-engine-swap.html)

Johnhef 11-30-2006 04:13 PM

Crazy idea for AMG engine swap?
 
:silly: Ok I might be totally off my rocker here but what would I be getting into in transplanting a drivetrain from a 01-02 CLK55 into an older MB? Say something like a 126/124 or even older, maybe 108/109? :eek:

The body guy here at work and I are kicking around some ideas since we got offered the CLK for under 7K. hit pretty bad, too far gone to fix.

If we can- I'd like to hear some serious thoughts from you guys.

Has this ever been done before like you see with VW's?

firstbenz 11-30-2006 04:17 PM

do it.
 
nuff said.

t walgamuth 11-30-2006 05:45 PM

i would take a tape measure and sit the car beside the proposed organ recipient and take all primary measurements. height should not be a problem with new engine into older car as hood lines have lowered steadily. width will be a potential stumbling block so look carefully at width at your exhaust headers, and fenders, clearance at the master cylinder booster, and clearance for oil filters and other things like alternators, etc. i suspect that the newer trannys will be more compact than the older ones so you may be fine there. all electronic devices related to engine managment will need to be swapped. things like exhaust seem unlikely to be a big problem but i wont hurt to check.

sounds exciting.

good luck

tom w

pwogaman 11-30-2006 06:06 PM

Engine width is no problem - just split the car down the middle and make it wider.

Pete Geither 11-30-2006 06:58 PM

I have fantisized about such a project many times. My TE would love it.:D

Battlecat714 11-30-2006 09:02 PM

that 5.5lt. would be way too big and heavy for the older chassis.

t walgamuth 11-30-2006 11:08 PM

i wouldnt be surprised if it weighs less than a 617 diesel. actually i would be surprised if it isnt lighter.

tom w

Hatterasguy 11-30-2006 11:18 PM

It would go real nice in a W126. We know the M120 fits so that engine should work.

Johnhef 12-01-2006 09:00 AM

I'm just thinking as to how much wiring I'm going to have to swap and if I'm going to be able to code out a lot of the other options and module from the engine and trans control units. basically I'm going to have to strip down the CLK bare and got from there- that said the car is going to present a challenge in that- the drivers door is almost even with the center of the steering wheel now- the car was a cabriolet.

Hatterasguy 12-01-2006 11:27 AM

Oh wow, hopefully there isn't to much blood inside!:eek:

Johnhef 12-01-2006 02:59 PM

there may be. 4 kids in the car, 2 died. The guy at the junkyard that got it said after he saw it if he knew that it was as bad is it turned out to be, he wouldnt have bought it.

Bigpete123 12-01-2006 03:14 PM

man, it's not like I'm supersticious or anything. But that freaks me out a little bit. I would rather not know what happened to the people in the car. I've got the heebiejeebies right now just thinking about it!!

This sounds like an insane project by the way. But if you have the money, tools, and patience, why the hell not?!?

Battlecat714 12-01-2006 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnhef (Post 1345551)
there may be. 4 kids in the car, 2 died. The guy at the junkyard that got it said after he saw it if he knew that it was as bad is it turned out to be, he wouldnt have bought it.

whoa...but then again you're after the engine right?

Johnhef 12-01-2006 04:21 PM

yeah... but who knows how much wiring I'll have to swap as well from the iside to get it to work- maybe need the EIS too, not sure about that yet. Will have to retain the CLK's numbers for awhile for keys and such too

Hatterasguy 12-01-2006 04:39 PM

Put it in a black 560SEL and call it the satan car of death!:eek:

Johnhef 12-01-2006 05:00 PM

:eek2: wow.
would this be better suited for the performance forum? has anyone EVER heard of a new/current engine in an old MB? like M112/113 vintage :D

suginami 12-01-2006 06:01 PM

Satish has installed a 5.0 liter M119 in his 560 SEC, and is currently working on (or is possibly finished) installing a V12 into the same car.

I believe he is the owner or part-owner of:

http://www.motorwerksgroup.com/

He has detailed pics of the M119 and V12 conversion on his website

www.mbcoupes.com

He posts here on the forum under Stammala.

suginami 12-01-2006 06:06 PM

1 Attachment(s)
I found a pic of Satish's car with the V12 installed over at Benzworld:

suginami 12-01-2006 06:08 PM

1 Attachment(s)
And another pic:

suginami 12-01-2006 06:14 PM

Just found a thread about Satish's car on the shop forum:

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/off-topic-discussion/168621-v12-560sec-418-hp-built-next-project-500ce.html?highlight=satish

POS 12-01-2006 06:57 PM

Did Satish do his own work or is there a shop he uses? I'm contimplating putting a bigger, better engine in my w123 and wondered who did it, since I do not have the know how.

That car is f'n awesome.

suginami 12-01-2006 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by POS (Post 1345734)
Did Satish do his own work or is there a shop he uses? I'm contimplating putting a bigger, better engine in my w123 and wondered who did it, since I do not have the know how.

That car is f'n awesome.

I think Satish mainly did the work himself in his own shop, but I'm sure the techs that work for him helped.

I believe one of his techs is installing an M119 V8 into a W124 coupe for him right now.

Johnhef 12-01-2006 10:26 PM

I've toyed with something like that in the past, such as putting a 560 motor into a 123 wagon. I always thought that would be neat, such as I could stil easily retain the hydraulic system :D but it never got past that of course...only a thought.

Tomguy 12-01-2006 11:02 PM

Thinking of putting a newer V8 into a 108/109?

It will fit. Not only that, but it is a LOT lighter than a cast-iron block 4.5 V8. Make sure to swap the tranny too.

It's possible. But it will involve a LOT of rewiring for the engine management.

That is one daily driver I'd really love to have.

Johnhef 12-01-2006 11:07 PM

engine and the .6 is a must. more than likely, the diff as well.

I'm working on getting some of the others at work interested in it- sort of a shop project if you will, now that would be fun! Got a electrical expert on board now too :D

Tomguy, any line on any donor vehicles? maybe even a SEC... I havent decided yet.

dpetryk 12-02-2006 07:24 AM

Hey POS. What engine are you considering installing. Maybe we should talk.

Johnhef 12-02-2006 07:50 AM

may have found a body donor...a 560SEC. looking into that now.

had some more thoughts as to problems I may run into, such as counting mileage, wheel speed sensors and pedal value sensor, etc :cool:

neanderthal 12-02-2006 04:56 PM

id love to have a 108 with a modern AMG V8 engine, 15 inch bundt wheels, more modern suspension, killa brakes, stock appearance.

yeah i realise killa brakes and 15 inch wheels isnt a good combination, but im after stock appearance.

of course that could be why i love the 6.3s and 4.5s

put this pipe dream in line behind the BMW R1200GS, BMW 2002 alpina, autodelta 1750 alfa GTV, eagle E type jag, BMW M1 and M119 powered (5.0) 190E 2.3- 16 EVO II.

at least im getting R12GS next year. :cool:

Johnhef 12-02-2006 08:00 PM

3 Attachment(s)
Ok found a 560SEC for cheap that needs engine repair. it seems like this would make a suitable body donor for the project...

suginami 12-02-2006 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnhef (Post 1346653)
Ok found a 560SEC for cheap that needs engine repair. it seems like this would make a suitable body donor for the project...

Excellent. Looks good from a distance.

sunman 12-02-2006 11:56 PM

Satish does his own work. He owns motorwerks. The v8 m119 project in the 124 coupe is still underway. Engine has been mounted already. Transplanting a later model 112 or 113 engine in a older car willl require all the electronics as well to make it run correctly. The Engine Management will NOT fire the engine if the VIN of the key inserted in the ignition switch does not match the VIN in the engine management unit. I have gone through this before and the only way to correctly do this is if you wire everything from the donor car or fine some other engine management system.

jhodg5ck 12-03-2006 12:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sunman (Post 1346827)
The Engine Management will NOT fire the engine if the VIN of the key inserted in the ignition switch does not match the VIN in the engine management unit. I have gone through this before and the only way to correctly do this is if you wire everything from the donor car or find some other engine management system.


Indeed..even all the necessary computers are coded to a specific car..you can't even generate new codes w/o DC in Jersey.. To be honest your taking what is an easy to work on car and making it horribly complicated for less power then you could push from said 560 engine w/ forced induction/stand alone FM.

Getting all the necessary signals to come in is going to be a Nightmare.

An early M119/120 swap is cake compared to this.

Jonathan

Hatterasguy 12-03-2006 12:56 PM

What about a stand alone aftermarket engine management system? I have seen it done on American V8's how much more complecated is this engine then an LS1?

jhodg5ck 12-03-2006 01:36 PM

Not sure, but the amount of aftermarket bits to make your LS1 run is well funded and documented. Not so much on any of the late model MB engines.

Trying to get all the VVT bits to work correctly along w/ engine/transmission communications...it's a monumental task any which way you look @ it.

Jonathan

Johnhef 12-04-2006 11:37 AM

Well the idea isn't dead yet. One of the foreman here wants to be involved in the project and is going to come along and assess the engine donor car and see if it will be worth doing or not. If its too far destroyed the discussion stops there.

The point isn't to overcomplicate a simple car or have less maximum ooomph... it's just for fun and to make something that apparently no one has done yet. Plus working for MB, doing it here and having access to our resources should be an advantage.

Pete Geither 12-04-2006 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by suginami (Post 1345705)
And another pic:

I read his whole report on putting the 119 into the SEC,,, and then he puts a V-12 in ??? That guy has more ambition and any 100 people I know,,,,, Wheeeewwwww !!!!:eek: :D


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