Screwed-up ATF Change at dealership, help!
 

hello guys,
it's not an emergency, but a question for you how to find justice with the dealership.
yesterday i was changing ATF on Mercedes 300E 1989,
i have provided the ATF Fluid (Mobil 1, 8 quarts), as i know, the capacity of my car is around 8 quarts. After i got my car back, only at home i have noticed that they used only 3,5 quarts of fluid. I called them and they did confirm that they haven't drained the torque converter (even though i have a plug there and i know that it is supposed to be drained), also they told me that they never actually drain the TC. So i said goodbye and decided to research before demanding something :). Is the TC and transmission pan a closed circuit? Can i call them and demand to drain the TC or refund my money (150$), i didn't do it myself only because i wasn't sure how to drain the damn TC. But paying 150$ for just draining the pan thats hideous!

Please share your advice with me, what should i do?

thank you in advance,
andrei

Sounds like they took you to the bank. Removing the TC drain plug is not really any harder than removing the tranny pan drain plug. I would try to get some of the money back.

Here is WIS document AP27.10-P-2702AA
Automatic transmission oil change with filter change
TRANSMISSION 722.3 /4 /5
Item 4 calls for TC drain

So i said goodbye and decided to research before demanding something . Is the TC and transmission pan a closed circuit?

Not clear what you are really asking. My guess is you mean to ask whether the fluid in the TC is separate from the fluid in the Transmission. No the fluid flows between them. If they were separate there would have to be two fill tubes.

Steve

thank you for your replies guys,
now, if i'll go there should i ask to be present while they re-do it? and also should i tell them to put the new filter in?

Learn and do it yourself.

I would take the pdf in post 3 along with 5.5, 6 or 7.1 qts of new fluid which I had purchased (your guarantee they use the fluid you want) to the service manager and request they drain everything as they clearly should have done and refill leaving the new filter where is.

Little give/little take.

so let's see, you were smart enough to buy 8 qt's of mobil1 fluid, and you even knew that you had to drain the pan and the TC, but yet you took the car to the dealer only to be rammed in the a$$ ?? what a pity :dizzy2:

I'm a medium DIY'er at best and this is something you can do yourself. Since they already did the messy part of changing the filter, you can drain the trans and the TC and just refill. You can search this site to find where the TC drain plug is.

Of course this assumes you have somewhere where you can work on your car. If that's not the case, I would just take it somewhere else and tell them exactly what you want them to do. I'm not sure how productive it would be to go back and argue with them but if you've got the time, you've got nothing to lose.

IMHO, there are two ways to handle this problem. The dealer charged you a fair price to perform a relatively simple job. They only completed part of the job, so they either owe you a full refund, or they should do the job correctly.

FWIW, the simple maintenance jobs (oil changes, transmission service, etc.) usually go to the least experienced techs'. The whole thing may have been an honest mistake. It's possible the guy who worked on your car didn't even know the TC had a drain plug.

Unfortunately the last comment was right.
You never know what tech you are going to get at the dealership, and if the kid even knows what a torque converter is.

Dealerships are scary, I know I was a tech at a couple.
I could tell some horror stories about some of the things new techs do ,and don't do, corners being cut by experienced techs which is what probably happened with your car, although and experienced tech would have covered his tracks better by hiding the unused customer supplied trans fluid so maybe your tech was just plain retarded, who knows.

I would take it back, talk to the service manager, demand that they drain and refill the fluid from the pan, and torque converter and replace the filter with a brand new one.
They'll take care of it, all you have to do is tell them you will make sure everyone knows how crappy their dealership is if they give you any guff.

No service manager wants to hear that.
They may have been a little insulted by you bringing your own oil, but at least they could have made you happy by doing the required work since you evidently seemed like a more discerning customer than most.

Some of the cars in that era did not have TC drain plugs. I know my '91 300SE does not. Does anyone know if the '89 300E has one for sure?
I'd hate to see you go in all set to get redemption, and instead get zapped!!!

DG

Andrei has every reason to question the quality of the work done on his car, given the fact that more than half of his ATF wasn't used. It's not about "redemption", it's about getting the job done correctly.

Some Forum members may be surprised to know that the dealer may actually appreciate the feedback. If it was, in fact, an honest mistake by an inexperienced technician, he needs to be told about it. If he's not, it's only a matter of time until he makes the same mistake again. If it turns out that the technician didn't give a sh**, the service manager will definitely want to know about it.

Lastly, there are some dealers out there who don't work on cars that are more than ten years old. But believe me, those that do are keenly aware that owners of older cars have plenty of options when it comes to routine maintenance. The way the business is today, dealers can't afford to look the other way when quality issues arise.

hello guys,
thank you for all your replies.
here is the story.

i have also called the other dealership and they told me that they don't drain TC as well. I took the print-out from the post earlier and my work book (bentley publishers) where it clearly says about draining TC and went to the dealership. Right away i called the service manager and was ready to argue. But, they he was so extremely nice, he took me to the shop and there was several mechanics (older guys, looked like they knew what they were talking about). And we started discussion. One of them explained the reasons for not draining the TC because there is a pump right before the TC, so if you'll drain the fluid from there, after starting-up car the TC wouldn't be filled-up and you'll get some 'metal-on-metal' action. But i did show them all the manuals and how it should be done. They said that they'll do it but it would be first time ever they'll do it on 300e. As i said, they were extremely nice and friendly. I though for a while and decided that if it works fine right now, and they have never done it in their lives, i would just leave it like it is and change it myself in the summer. The only thing i'm pissed off at myself that i spend 150$ for nothing...lesson learned.

All of the cars from the era have a TC drain plug - including your 91 300SE.

honest and professional opinion, the guy at the dealership is right, of course you can try to drain it and burden yourself with the cost of repairing the torque converter when it breaks, due to the metal particles. As the saying goes, don't fix what is not broken.

The metal particles are imaginary - the kind of imaginary particles one is capable of conceiving when one is LAZY and/or GREEDY, and not willing follow the factory maintenance procedures - and imaginary metal particles can't really harm a transmission. The service procedures call for changing all of the fluid, not half of it. It takes a while to drain the TC - the plug is quite hard to get at on some models. But you've learned a valuable lesson, this is a half-assed dealership, on this job and probably others, and you should never go back.

BS

Change ALL the fluid.

This metal-on-metal action is at most minimal. There's still some boundary lubrication acting on the wet parts until full fluid is acheived during startup, just like you get when you change motor oil in the engine.

So if draining the TC is bad, let me ask you, why did the manufacturer put a drain plug on it and instruct to drain it in their service procedure? I drain the TC in my 300E each and every time and have never had a problem. They're just feeding you a line. Go back and make them do it right. Oh, and post the name of the dealership in the shops forum so we can all steer clear of it. Be sure to let the service manager know you did so AFTER they make good on the original job.

The corolary to this would be "never change the oil on an engine that's still running - it's not broken."

<<As the saying goes, don't fix what is not broken. >>

"don't fix what is not broken" has nothing to do with 'Preventive Maintenance " ..and changing half your tranny fluid is a waste of 3.5 ltr of new fluid .
We don't want to dilute the contaminants, we want to get rid of them.............

Not that it's a big deal, and I'm not being a turkey; but DEANYEL, my '91 300SE does not have a torque converter drain plug. I bought it new in '91, so it's the original converter. I looked hard for it early on, and when I pulled the tranny to repair the rear main seal on the engine, I put it on the workbench and REALLY looked for it. It just ain't there!!
So, either I got a one-off fluke, or somebody at MB decided we didn't need to drain the converter on this particular model.

Anyway, I've done a lot of 2.75 quart changes in the last 16 years, and it's still working perfect at 175k miles, so I guess I can't complain, saved a lot of $$ on fluid - HeHe.

DG

And you're turning the engine over slowly by hand while someone watches the aperture for the full 360 degrees?

Converter Drain Plug

For Vehicle: 1988 - 1991 Mercedes Benz 300SE (Engine: 103.981)
Description: Trans: 722.319

Catalog Number: J2011-100658/OES

All my cars, '79 300D, '95 C280 and '89 300SE have had their TC drained at the time of trans fluid/filter service.

You have to realize that the car needs to occupy the service rack for up to 1 hour until the TC drains.

That may be why some shops decide not to drain the TC. "get 'em in, move 'em out"

I've paid $150 for this 'full' service at Peter Schmid transmissions.:scholar: