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  #1  
Old 05-03-2007, 12:24 AM
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Location: Indiana
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Question Driver's side timing chain guides broke and valves and more

So I figured out what was wrong with my 1985 500SEL the other day unfortunately...I took off the driver's side head (excuse me i don't have a comma key) and there was calamity. It was ugly.

Every rocker was off its respective valve and hydraulic mount i can plainly see that 4 valve springs look "not straight" as far as me looking down on them they slant to the right i believe probably broken or bent valves. I'm hoping "bent" because something has to help my odds of complete damage.

My question is this as i do not have a guide...

I'm not sure if this is possible but do I have to take off the complete intake manifold before I can take the head off (i have no question mark key either...)

the passenger side head is PERFRECT and the guide and tensioner are all fine. Just the driver side is hit

I've found bits of plastic everywhere from the rails.

Also another question on the head are there 8 of those 8mm hex bolts to get out holding the head or are there 10 or more (question mark) AND do I have to remove the exhaust manifold or can it come out with the head or do I have to remove it just for plain access to some head bolts (question mark) also what about the power steering pump

Thanks I appreciate putting up with no question marks or commas.

-james
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1982 Mercedes-Benz 300SD TurboDiesel - Silver
1985 Mercedes-Benz 500SEL - Maroon
1974 Mercedes-Benz 240D - 4 on the floor, My 1st Car!! - Pearl
1985 Nissan 300ZX Turbo - Auto to Manual Tranny conversion - Black
1991 Volvo 940GLE - My everyday driver - Pewter
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  #2  
Old 05-03-2007, 12:54 AM
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Looking to remove your 500's head? You WILL need to remove the:
- Intake manifold
- ALL head bolts
- Exhaust manifold (blocks several head bolts).
- Power steering pump and probably distributor

The driver's side head on the aluminum m117 block has 18 head bolts and 2 smaller bolts (that attach to the timing case) that need to be removed. 5 of these are VERY long bolts that go in at an angle at the "Bottom" of the cam towers (Furthest from the intake manifold).
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Driver's side timing chain guides broke and valves and more-m116-m117-alum.gif  
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  #3  
Old 05-03-2007, 02:53 AM
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Location: seattle, wa
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It is possible to remove the drivers head without removing intake. you will need to remove p/s pump and it will be easier if exhaust manifold is removed. I never remove intake when a customer request to do only one head and is on a tight budget. The right way is to remove intake and both heads to rework and replace all rubber seals under intake, vac lines etc... good luck
Paul
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Old 05-12-2007, 03:24 PM
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Thanks

Thanks for the replies all!


I have been slowly working on it but am preoccupied with my 300sd at the time

It sounds like I have a LOT of work ahead of me...great...
but it is good to know that I dont HAVE to take the intake off if I don't necessarily want to. And there is no reason to take off the other head so I might just go that route and make things easier on myself. The PS pump is in the way and I figured it would have to come out for one reason or another and I guess I thought right.

Well I'm going to get to work on it soon and I will update this thread if I get anything accomplished on it to the point of needing some more advice! Thanks once again! Knowing the # of bolts that are required to be removed also helps a lot as I will have an accurate understanding of which ones are necessary to remove and those that are not.

I figured well if I'm going to be doing one side I might as well refresh both sides but if that means taking off the intake manifold then I might as well avoid that situation and wait for it to be a necessity. Also I'm thinking of selling the car because its good old summer and I foresee a motorcycle in my future very soon...so why spend more money than i gotta
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1982 Mercedes-Benz 300SD TurboDiesel - Silver
1985 Mercedes-Benz 500SEL - Maroon
1974 Mercedes-Benz 240D - 4 on the floor, My 1st Car!! - Pearl
1985 Nissan 300ZX Turbo - Auto to Manual Tranny conversion - Black
1991 Volvo 940GLE - My everyday driver - Pewter
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  #5  
Old 05-12-2007, 04:38 PM
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When sitting here contemplating how a novice will experience this job it is really hard to get a true feel. I've probably been involved with 300 plus valve jobs/chain failures on 116/117 engines. I can imagine a flat rate tech with an impact and a bunch of technique sliding a head out without removing an intake. Gonna reuse the gaskets of course, bound to seal, ain't my car.....

Slam that b*tch.

Maybe the fact I have never paid flat rate is the reason that in over 300 of these jobs I never considered leaving the intake on and neither did MB as that is why a each head set comes with a full set of intake gaskets. it is also probably why the flat rate gives 17 hours for one head and 25 for two. I don't suppose any tech sliding heads ever gave back the part of flat rate designed to pay for removing and restoring the intake systems.

.
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  #6  
Old 05-13-2007, 05:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevebfl View Post
When sitting here contemplating how a novice will experience this job it is really hard to get a true feel. I've probably been involved with 300 plus valve jobs/chain failures on 116/117 engines. I can imagine a flat rate tech with an impact and a bunch of technique sliding a head out without removing an intake. Gonna reuse the gaskets of course, bound to seal, ain't my car.....

Slam that b*tch.

Maybe the fact I have never paid flat rate is the reason that in over 300 of these jobs I never considered leaving the intake on and neither did MB as that is why a each head set comes with a full set of intake gaskets. it is also probably why the flat rate gives 17 hours for one head and 25 for two. I don't suppose any tech sliding heads ever gave back the part of flat rate designed to pay for removing and restoring the intake systems.

.
I agree with Steve. I'm just letting him know,yes it it possible to remove the head without intake. Is it the right way to do it? No! just like I stated in my post. I, personally DO NOT charge the rate for removing the intake when I don't. I've done over a hundred or so chain failure jobs. I always tell the customer the full valve job is the way to go. When someone gets towed in with a car that is a pile of.... and is crying about having no money,needs the car,what's cheapest way to fix it? I either have them tow the car somewhere else or get out the chaulk board, sit them down and explain this option in detail. If I've learned anything about running a shop,It's people are a hell of a lot easier to deal with when you give them choices, especially if they're not a longtime regular customer. BTW out of the 20 or so short cuts I've done nothing has ever failed.
This option is rarely offered to a regular customer because the car has been kept in good shape and we have mutual trust.
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  #7  
Old 05-14-2007, 12:58 AM
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How do you handle the block drilling, taping and helicoiling routine, especially for someone without the alignment jig?
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