Everyone please go back and read be459's post. There are R12 replacements THAT ARE EXPLOSIVE. This sounds harmless since it is used as refrigerant in a sealed system. But what if a compressor locks up making a spark?

I was told about these replacements explosive content several years ago and have avoided them. I also have posted warnings on mshop several different times.

Folks, it's not worth the risk. There has been debate here whether or not to convert an original R12 system to R134a and they are interesting. I have kept some on R12 and converted others. But that debate is completely benign as compared to whether or not to use R12 replacements.

Use R12 or R134a and leave the Freeze 12 and the other BOMBS for someone else.

be459's post is the first I've actually heard of an actual explosion, but I'm not surprised that it finally happened.

Is it really worth saving $50 or $100 by taking a risk of burning you or your family members?

Good luck,

There was a bit on 60 minutes (I think) a couple years ago where a fire department in the Midwest took junk cars filled them with hydrocarbon refrigerants created a leak and an ignition source and filmed it. Made an interesting display, sorta like a bit of the mideast in the midwest.

It's amazing it is still around in the US as it is definitely illegal to use in mobile A/C.

__________________
Steve Brotherton
Continental Imports
Gainesville FL
Bosch Master, ASE Master, L1
33 years MB technician

What is it about Freeze 12 that you claim is explosive? The manufacturer specifically states that it is not flammable, and is approved for use as a direct replacement for R12. It's just 80% R134a & 20% R142b...

http://www.freeze12.com

[Edited by longston on 06-11-2001 at 05:17 PM]

__________________

Scott Longston
Northern California Wine Country...
"Turbos whistle, grapes wine..."

Larry's probably thinking of OZ-12, which is/was a hydrocarbon (i.e propane/iso-butane mixture) which
replaces R-12.

Some of the blends appear to cool better even than R-12,
which should be interesting to those of us with old,
marginal a/c systems. Here's some websites at which to
fritter away your time:

The Autofrost site. This is the blend invented by George
Goble. George is mostly noted for "accelerating" his
BBQ grill by pouring a bucket of liquid oxygen over the
coals.

http://www.autofrost.com

The air conditioning alternative refrigerants message
board:

http://www.aircondition.com/wwwboard/alternative/

And last, but not least, the dreaded Cryo-Chem website!

http://www.cryochem.com/

Freeze-12 is not explosive. But when it starts burning, I think, poison gas comes out. It is a mixture of 80% R-134a (HFC) and 20% R142b (HCFC). The reason people use it because you can still use the mineral oil that R12 uses. R134a does not mix with mineral oil, so the lub job is done by R142b, 20% of the refrigerants. Do you really want to do this to your system, the oil is carried by 20% of the refrigerant thru out the system? The manufacturer said it is okay.

Befor you decide if freeze-12 is for you, here are my concerns:

1. R142b (HCFC) is the same family as R-22 which is used in the home air conditioning system. I read from some place that R-22 is very bad for the rubber seals, therefore, R-22 is not good for the car. If 20% of refrigerant is HCFC, how bad can it do to the seal. I do not know. The manufacturer says it is okay.

2. Freeze-12 needs to be liquid charged, if not, the percentage of mixture will be changed. In other words, if it leaks from your A/C system, in order to get the same ratio of mixture, you have to take all the remaining stuff out of the system and recharge it with fresh Freeze-12. There is a "problem". You cannot legally vent the stuff into the air. How are you going to service the system legally and cheaply? Maybe, the manufacturer has a recycler center to collect the remaining gas for a cheap price, assuming that you have the right equipments.

David

[Edited by be459 on 06-11-2001 at 05:41 PM]