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  #1  
Old 06-12-2001, 05:10 PM
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Well, I had been under the impression that the '96 and on c280 had a very good A/C system. I had mine charged this spring. It had no trouble passing a vacuum holding test, but this last week, I felt that the A/C was a little weak, so I took it for service. It was very low on refrigerant, but was still capable of running. The protection had not yet kicked in. It still passed a vacuum holding test, but the miniscule leak was sealed and all was well for 2 days. Yesterday the compressor started making horrible noises and today it will run but not load. Here goes just over $2000.00 for a new compressor (installed). Total mileage on car - 100,000km, almost exactly. Obviously the compressor's protection is inadequate and running the climate control system on "auto" for a month with lower than normal refrigerant level is not good for it. The new one is supposed to go in tomorrow so hopefully I won't cook as it gets warmer this week.
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  #2  
Old 06-12-2001, 05:35 PM
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Unfortunately with the spring we have had, it was impossible to tell that the system was low. Having had it charged in the spring, I would never had expected it to be low so soon. Had it been warm, I would have caught it much sooner. Yes, I am in Canada, and MB Canada has no rebuilt compressors. $1400.00 for the compressor, some installation and taxes, brings it to about $2100.00. I really hope there's a warranty on the new one too.
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  #3  
Old 06-12-2001, 05:45 PM
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Not if I want to drive the car for the next month, it's not an option. I rely completely on this vehicle. And it's not the dealer changing it. They don't do A/C. As for catching the leak, 2 separate shops did vacuum holding tests and pronounced it sound.
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  #4  
Old 06-12-2001, 07:16 PM
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Hmmmm, I just reread my last post and I don't like the tone of it. It was rather abrupt. I really don't mean to be short with anyone. I have a very terse writing style due to occasional technical writing.

My thanks always to those who take the time to answer. I resigned myself yesterday to the expenditure. I'm not mad at my car, just a bit bummed about spending major $.

I guess the lesson learned is to keep the "EC" button pushed unless I deliberately want to run the compressor? I reread my owner's manual and it does not really mention this. Should I treat this system a little less carelessly? I have had it on "AUTO" for a couple of months now.
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  #5  
Old 06-13-2001, 12:39 AM
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Hi John,

In your post "One reason the C-Class sompressors are so reliable has to with the fact that they run most of the time." does it mean the compressor always engaged when AC on? This is what I found on my 94 C220. It works not like those Japanese cars keep cycling the compressor on and off. I check the PBU item 7 by depressing REST a while then press FAN-UP to item 7, the reading goes up from 11.x to 16.x, then goes down to 11.x, repeatly. Seems pressure is OK. I wonder is there another internal switch in AC system to regulate the pressure?

Thanks in advance

CC


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  #6  
Old 06-13-2001, 03:10 AM
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I heard that the compressor is always on unless the climate control is turned off or the EC button is turned on. This applies (compressor on) even when you are heating the cabin.

Charles, what does PBU stand for? I use the N22 read out for information like that also.

I am guessing item number 7 is the pressure in bar, correct? I don't have the list off hand, it's in my visor in my car. Now, can we tell if there is a leak or not by monitoring the pressure? What seems to be the "normal" pressure range and what pressure should we be concerned with? Anyone know? Hopefully Steve B will come and help us out.

And Benzfan, I agree with John S. on trying to put the blame on one of the AC shops.... though I'm assuming that would be rather difficult, but it's definitly worth a try and some persistence (for the $2100!)!
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2006 E350 w/ 155k miles (Daily Driver)

Previous:
1993 300E 3.2L Sedan w/ close to about 300k miles
2003 E500 Brilliant Silver (Had 217k miles when totalled!)
1989 300E with 289,000 miles (had for <1 yr while in HI)
03 CLK 500 cabrio (Mom's)
2006 C230k (Dad's)
1999 S420 (Mom's/Dad's)
2000 C230k Sport sedans
2001 CLK320 Cabrio (Mom's)
1995 C280 My First Mercedes-Benz... (155k miles. EXCEPTIONAL AUTOMOBILE. Was Very hard to let go of!)
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  #7  
Old 06-13-2001, 04:08 AM
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David, Thanks for your quick reply. Yes, the AC compressor behaves just the way you describe.
PBU stands for climate control's Push Button Unit. Sorry for not clearly state it. Item 7 should be pressure reading, I have no idea what should be correct value either. When in compressor off mode (EC) the value is about 4.5-5. Maybe it could be a clue to system leak. Need expert like Steve B to answer for us.

CC
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  #8  
Old 06-13-2001, 04:11 AM
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Charles,

I will check out the ratings tomorrow and take not to them, and then post them here. I will do it with EC on and off. I'll try LO, 72 degrees, and HI, just to get rough ratings (and differences). I'll report them tomorrow night!
PBU- interesting... always heard it referred to as N22 Read-Out Values!

BTW, check out your ratings too so that we can compare.
(Isn't that feature just amazing!? I love it.)

PS: I'm still trying to figure out how to change the KM/H to MPH!
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2006 E350 w/ 155k miles (Daily Driver)

Previous:
1993 300E 3.2L Sedan w/ close to about 300k miles
2003 E500 Brilliant Silver (Had 217k miles when totalled!)
1989 300E with 289,000 miles (had for <1 yr while in HI)
03 CLK 500 cabrio (Mom's)
2006 C230k (Dad's)
1999 S420 (Mom's/Dad's)
2000 C230k Sport sedans
2001 CLK320 Cabrio (Mom's)
1995 C280 My First Mercedes-Benz... (155k miles. EXCEPTIONAL AUTOMOBILE. Was Very hard to let go of!)
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  #9  
Old 06-13-2001, 06:21 PM
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Whoah! Some of this is leaving a vapor trail over my head. Do you mean to say that I can monitor system pressure through the PBU on a '96?

Just got home from the shop. The new compressor is in but is circulating liquid. The vapor phase does not occur. Apparently the compressor took out the expansion valve too. Back to the shop Friday to have a new one put in. In the meantime we disconnected the new compressor electrically to ensure nothing happens to it for the next day.
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  #10  
Old 06-13-2001, 06:39 PM
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Benzfan,
Yes, you sure can! I just did a search to give you a link to the thread that discusses this, but cannot find it?
Oh well... I have the codes for a 1995 C-class. They should be similar to your car. But for now, I'll give you the basics...

With car and climate control ON, press and hold REST for about 5 seconds (or until a new screen appears). There should be a 1 on the left side and a value on the right side (this value will be in-cabin temp.). I know how this system works on a dual climate control system, but not on your single mode... so I cannot be sure how it is laid out on your PBU screen.
To scroll up and down, you press AUTO (and whatever's on the other side where AUTO would be on dual climate). Sorry these are rather poor instructions, but you should be able to figures it out.

I can report to you what each value means later on this evening when I report my Pressures in Bar! Isn't this the best feature!?
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2006 E350 w/ 155k miles (Daily Driver)

Previous:
1993 300E 3.2L Sedan w/ close to about 300k miles
2003 E500 Brilliant Silver (Had 217k miles when totalled!)
1989 300E with 289,000 miles (had for <1 yr while in HI)
03 CLK 500 cabrio (Mom's)
2006 C230k (Dad's)
1999 S420 (Mom's/Dad's)
2000 C230k Sport sedans
2001 CLK320 Cabrio (Mom's)
1995 C280 My First Mercedes-Benz... (155k miles. EXCEPTIONAL AUTOMOBILE. Was Very hard to let go of!)
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  #11  
Old 06-13-2001, 08:15 PM
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I just gave it a try. The fan control scrolls through the parameters. If I read correctly, there are 23 of them. Most dont mean anything to me right now because my compressor is disabled and the system evacuated. I would love to know what all these are for the '96.
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  #12  
Old 06-13-2001, 09:20 PM
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OK, first of all Benzfan, I will list off what the different codes mean. I had to improvise off of 2 different sheets and figure out what was mine since i could only get them for 94 C and some other model, but together, I think I got it pretty accurate. It might even be a LITTLE different than yours, but shouldn't be much different, or too hard to figure out.

1. In-Car Temperature Sensor
2. Outside Temperature Sensor
3. Heater Core Temperature Sensor
5. Evaporator Temperature Sensor
6. ECT Temperature Sensor (Coolant Temp in F)
7. Refrigerant Pressure in Bar (see results below)
8. Blower Control Voltage
9. Software Status of A/C Push Button Module
15. Selected in-car Temperature
20. Version Code
21. Engine Speed (RPM)
22. Terminal 58d, Battery Voltage, % of (ex: 48 = 48 of battery voltage, ie 13.1 volts)
23. Vehicle Speek (Km/H)
51. Current Number of Slip Recognitions of the Poly-V-Belt.
52. Stored Number of Slip Recognitions in the Poly-V-Belt.

Yours might vary a little, but this should be pretty right on.


Ok, now the results of the bar pressure (# 7).

I did a few different readings... wish I could make a graph, but this will have to do for now.
________________

In Car Temperature selected to 72 degrees.
-with engine idling and vehicle stopped, pressure seemed to be in the range of 15.4-14.2. With the car traveling at roughly 20 mph, pressure seemed to go down a little... between 10.1 and 15.

In Car Temperature selected to LO degree.
-with engine idling and vehicle stopped, pressure seemed to be in the range of 15-15.8. With the car traveling at roughly 20 mph, pressure seemed to be between 14 and 17.

In Car Temperature selected to HI degree (full heat).
-with engine idling and vehicle stopped, pressure seemed to be in the range of 12.8 - 17. With the car traveling at roughly 20 mph, pressure seemed to be a lot lower at 10.0 - 8.7.

Now I did some readings with the car in NEUTRAL and revved the engine to 3500 or so, the pressure seemed to slow go down as the revs increased.

Oh, almost forgot! When in EC, Economy Mode, pressure goes down to about 5, between 5.1 and 5.8 were my readings.

There is no consistency with these results, or any pattern that I can see. Maybe the pressure just stays somewhat consistent and varies upon many factors. I'm not sure. But I hope Stevebfl will come along and look at these results!!

BTW, why don't the car rev past 4000 RPMs when in Neutral?






[Edited by David C Klasse on 06-13-2001 at 09:25 PM]
__________________
2006 E350 w/ 155k miles (Daily Driver)

Previous:
1993 300E 3.2L Sedan w/ close to about 300k miles
2003 E500 Brilliant Silver (Had 217k miles when totalled!)
1989 300E with 289,000 miles (had for <1 yr while in HI)
03 CLK 500 cabrio (Mom's)
2006 C230k (Dad's)
1999 S420 (Mom's/Dad's)
2000 C230k Sport sedans
2001 CLK320 Cabrio (Mom's)
1995 C280 My First Mercedes-Benz... (155k miles. EXCEPTIONAL AUTOMOBILE. Was Very hard to let go of!)
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  #13  
Old 06-14-2001, 03:41 AM
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Posts: 21
Benzfan,
You did the right way to disconnect compressor. As my understanding fluid do harm the compressor since it is not compressible, where air is compressible. That's why the system needs a dryer to filter moisture and evacuate system to get rid of moisture before recharge.

Just my .02

CC
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  #14  
Old 06-14-2001, 04:44 AM
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Join Date: Oct 2000
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Posts: 21
David, What a nice test and answer you have done. Bravo!!
For item #22, I believe it's compressor RPM on my car. When in EC mode it's 0, in AUTO mode no matter temp set to HI, LO or 72 degrees it's 9.3 which can be interpret as 930 RPM, at the same time the engine speed, item #21, is in idle 760 RPM. And it goes up along with engine rev up.

I only did the test in idle and recorded one data only. I'll try again tonight to record the pressure range as you did. The value of #7 I got is:
EC/temp LO: 6.8
AUTO/temp LO: 13.6 (varying)
AUTO/temp 72: 12.7 (varying)
AUTO/temp HI: 14.0 (varying)

By the way, what is the reading of #50? It's 0 degrees C at both EC/LO and AUTO/LO, 21 degrees C at AUTO/72 and 68 degrees C at AUTO/HI.

The ECU will cut out fire when engine reached 4000RPM in P & N gear for protection. Well, BMW does not do this way. You can experience body shudder in such condition, very similar to over RPM protection when driving. Don't worry about it.

CC



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  #15  
Old 06-14-2001, 04:58 AM
David C Klasse's Avatar
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I was in such a hurry writing down all of the info, I skipped 50. It means nothing. I have it listed as empty or something like that. It will always say 0. So that's normal.

As for your # 22, it could be? I believe I have the papers that list a pre 6/94 production 202 N22 read out values. I can double check. That would be interesting...

As for the rev in N and P. Is this for transmission protection? Why wouldn't BMW do this? But the engine just sounded so silky smooth revving up at 3800 rpm....! And the rev limiter was very smooth and sustained. I wasn't sure what was happening because the few times I encountered the rev limiter was in 2nd gear (manually in) and I forgot to switch it out!! It's not pleasant, quite jerky.... must just be 'cause the car's in motion!

Anyway, I'm going to compare the values of our pressures now. I hope others can give us their data too for comparison.
__________________
2006 E350 w/ 155k miles (Daily Driver)

Previous:
1993 300E 3.2L Sedan w/ close to about 300k miles
2003 E500 Brilliant Silver (Had 217k miles when totalled!)
1989 300E with 289,000 miles (had for <1 yr while in HI)
03 CLK 500 cabrio (Mom's)
2006 C230k (Dad's)
1999 S420 (Mom's/Dad's)
2000 C230k Sport sedans
2001 CLK320 Cabrio (Mom's)
1995 C280 My First Mercedes-Benz... (155k miles. EXCEPTIONAL AUTOMOBILE. Was Very hard to let go of!)
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