I found a 1991 190E 2.6L for sale. It looks like I'll probably be buying it. A lot of people here are super knowledgeable, much more so than the people I've been able to find at shops and what not, so I'm asking here...

I'm aware of the wiring harness issue that many Mercedes have. I've heard varying things on the range of cars and years that are affected. Most say 1991-1996, but I've heard a few claim 1992-1996. Obviously, this makes a difference. Is there anyway to check the harness and see if it is already degraded, or will degrade, at a glance? Of course, I'm going to have a PPI done, but it'd still be nice to know how I could check myself.
Also, if someone can tell me a rough price on having it replaced...I've heard anywhere from $800 to $3000.

Also, I was a bit curious about how the transmission should be shifting. The transmission sounds and feels very smooth gear wise, but when switching from (I believe) 2nd to 3rd the speed boost is larger than I would expect based on getting into the highest gears on the interstate, where it is almost unnoticeable. Typical? It may be I am simply unused to the transmission, which is clearly of higher quality than the ones in the Ford's I'm used to driving.

One final note: is paying an extra $110 ($270 VS $160) for the best PPI worth it? The car is in great shape in every way I could tell, so I dunno. I don't know how good the more expensive PPI is at a Mercedes dealer, which is where I'm taking it.

I hope I'm not being too presumptuous by making this my first post. Any advice or information is very appreciated. Thanks a lot!

The wiring harness problem wasn't on the W201 chassis at all.

Having a PPI is most likely the best way to see JUST how much $$$ you will need to spend to make the car the way you want it!

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MERCEDES Benz Master Guild Technician (6 TIMES)
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44 years foreign automotive repair
27 Years M.B. Shop foreman (dealer)
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190E 2.3 16V ITS SCCA race car (sold)
1986 190E 2.3 16V 2.5 (sold)
Retired Moderator

lartrak, check kbb.com for the resale value of the car by a private party. Whether or not to pay for a PPI by a MB dealer tech depends on how well qualified he/she is. A MB dealer tech may be more, or less, qualified than an independent ... depends on the individual tech's training and experience with that vintage automobile.

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Fred Hoelzle

Thanks for the info on the harness.. That's a real load off. For the moment, I'm hoping the PPI will just reveal no serious mechanical problems. I am prepared to put some money into it, I just don't want to have to double my initial investment in the first year. The car has low mileage (66XXX), though, and shows a lot of signs (though unfortunately the service records aren't complete) of being very well-maintained by its sole previous owner, so I have fairly high hopes. I'm also careful and put fairly low mileage on cars, so it isn't going to be put through the wringer or anything.

Oh yeah, and I did check the KBB when I first saw it. It's actually being sold at the exact KBB price it should be. At first I thought it was a bit high, until I noticed it had almost every possible option, even chrome wheels (which, according to the original retailer sticker which is in the owner's manual, even in 1991 was a $3400 option - ouch!).

lartrak, pull one of the wheels during the PPI and check that they are genuine MB wheels ... will have the MB "star" on the back of the wheel. Also, check the spare.

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Fred Hoelzle

Thanks for the tip on the wheel. We did check the spare, which was MB. The trunk looks like it was never used, actually - the original owner was an older woman who apparently didn't drive outside of a small geographical area.

BTW, is the spare just near-full sized or is it actually full-sized? It's definitely bigger than the "minis" I'm used to on cars. The owner's manual suggests mounting it on the rear axle if possible, which leads me to believe it is somehow different than normal tires, but it also doesn't say you need to go out and buy a new one to replace it ASAP as my old Taurus, with a minitire, did.

You'll have to forgive my ignorance here, as my experience is mostly with a bit newer American-made cars.

lartrak, the E-Class cars that we own all have full size spare wheels. I'm not intimately familiar with the 190 cars, but I suspect they have full size spares too.

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Fred Hoelzle

You can expect to drop $1000-$2000 into it immediately due to deferred maintenance of the previous owner. ALL cars come with some deferred maintenance, the inspection will tell you what maintenance and how much money.

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- Brian


1989 500SEL Euro
1966 250SE Cabriolet
1958 BMW Isetta 600

The 2-3 shift sounds like flaring. That may be a fairly common issue caused by the B1 piston, I think. Do some searching on flaring.

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Prost!

Well, I found a thread where it is defined like this:

"Instead of a crisp shift, the transmission misses the shift and hangs between the two gears. The engine revs up higher than desired because it's unloaded........sometimes much higher........before the shift finally occurs.

Sometimes it gets so bad that the driver lifts his foot to get the shift to occur."

Is that an accurate description? If so, that doesn't quite sound like it. The car changes gears smoothly and quickly, it just seems like there is a fairly abrupt change in acceleration levels, as if right when it switched gears I pushed down on the pedal a good deal more. I mean, the car accelerating faster is to be expected, it was just more than I thought it should be. But I might just be over-paranoid or something.

I must mention I've only been on a single test drive (which dazzled me enough to decide to buy it, I love the thing) of the car, so my experience with the shifting is hardly extensive. I think I'll have a chance to drive it again tomorrow, I'll try to pay a bit closer attention. Hopefully one of the mechanics doing the PPI can tell me if the trans is switching as it should be.

For what it is worth, I had someone else in the car with me who knows a good deal more about cars than I do (and has literally 10 times the driving experience I do), and they thought it the shifting was fine.

Regardless, thanks for all the help guys!

Well then it doesn't sound like flaring. The shifts will usually feel crisper than a typical American slushbox, although that is adjustable to some degree on the MB.

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Prost!

But don't adjust it to shift more smoothly. It will generate more heat and cause more wear.

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2012 E350
2006 Callaway SC560

Well, thanks for the advice and all guys. I got the inspection back today.

Let's just say so much was wrong, the Mercedes dealership took pity on me and discounted the cost of the inspection.

Oh, and one of the few things that I was actually worried about, the transmission, was working perfectly fine. Just nothing else was.

I'd have to say the repeated warnings to ALWAYS get a PPI are completely correct.

Back to searching for cars again...

What were the major problems?

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Prost!

I'll have to dig up the list, but in brief...

Head gasket job, a number of oil leaks, several engine problems (they weren't sure about all of them, needed more diagnostic work), lambda tower, bad injectors, bad sparks, bad filters, bad lock, bad window regulator, broken lock button, broken AC/vents, some kind of problem when idling (valve? I never noticed when driving it), a bunch of other small problems, several line and wiring problems. The Mercedes estimate was about $6200. My favorite part of the estimate was the missing hood ornament, which they apparently charge $22 to install. I couldn't help but laugh at the ludicrousness of that.

It would have been a lot cheaper elsewhere, of course, but there were so many problems, several of which seem to indicate poor maintenance, that I decided it wasn't worth it.

Probably the most amazing to me was how clean most of the stuff SEEMED when looking at, and the quality of the outer body and interior. It was essentially a pretty apple with a rotten core.