Herr Schrempp recently admitted MB have had quality problems.

My 2000 E430W4 had major service issues in the 19 months I owned it (steering rack replaced, etc.), leading me to trade it in for a 2001 S430, which has been basically trouble free.

Our 2000 ML320 has had numerous faults (steering angle sensor, power seats, cracked bottom plate on 3d row seat, various electrical gremlins). OTOH no problems at all on the '01 SLK320.

I believe any problems with 220-series cars are more the result of MB's recent execution issues than any design-specific flaws. Overall, the car looks and feels more nimble and much better executed than the 140 (to me), without sacrificing any space. I love driving it. The 140 was perhaps the pinnacle of MB *damn the costs, do it right* engineering, but to me the 220 is much more fun to drive and much more practical to own and maintain.

My 2000 S500, does not even have any minor faults. It is due for service A this wednesday. The car has been great and fun to drive.

My 2002 S430 has been trouble free. Great Car!

At the risk of extending this thread longer than it is, read this from Consumer Reports and weep!:

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/off-topic-discussion/33540-consumer-reports-vs-mb.html

Seems to me the only real "experts" on this thread are those that owned both or currently own both...we all know how a 10 minute test drive is not truly representative of living the car day to day



Warren
1992 300SD
Columbus Ohio

I might not owned the W140, but I have driven that car for a week(98 S420)
This is what I like:
1. Less noise on highway
2. Feel stable and heavy
3. Big seat.(Bigger than the LX470)
This is what I don't like
1. It is too huge to park(longer than my LX 470)
2. Old style interior with a not really good leather material(like my 97 e420)
3. Gas mileage!!(not as worse as my LX470)
4. Nimble(like SUV)

Just an opinion...:D No offense
After driving that car and then drive 00 S500, is different. Its all about technology and sportiness. I can push W220 hard on a corner, not to mention the performance of the engine. Of course it feel smaller inside. But, it really fit me right. Easy to park, good gas mileage, less maintenance, styling.

Maybach: the real W140 successor!
 

Looking at the new pictures available of the soon-to-be-released new Mercedes-Benz Maybach limo, it is obvious that this car is what definitely M.B. must have used as a proper replacement for the W140, and not the controversial W220.

The W220 is due for a facelift at the end of the year. Maybe some of the major faults mentined could be corrected, although I doubt it. Mercedes needs a fresh new page to start with.

A. Rosich
S320, 1998
E320T, 1995

I also love the W140, but the Maybach does not play in the same division of the W140 W220, does not even play in the same sport!!!
I truly think that the W140 was a much better car than the W220, but everybody knows that! but for the value/money the w220 is simply a better choice. I have a 93 S500 and today with almost 150 kmiles it drives like new and more quietly that most cars available now, just don't ask me how much did I pay for this!!! See what I mean...

Folgado
93 S500

Boy Gilly You are scaring me
 

Gilly you are scaring the hell out of me i`m about to purchase a W140 S420 in a couple of days and somehow you got me wondering. This car has an original 60,000 miles on it what am i in for ?

Well,

It's been said before, but I'll say it again anyway,

The W140 cars are expensive to maintain, both in maintenance and repairs. Especially when repairs are required.

The AC evaporators fail, and it REALLY expensive. When you see what's involved in changing one, you'll see why the bill is so high.

Things like door-closers, PBU's, intrument panels, and so on, can add up over time.

Don't think that because you can buy a used W140 S-Class for $20,000, that it costs the same to maintain as a $20,000 Corolla. These cars were never meant to be sold into a demographic that cared about running costs. They were "damn the torpedoes, full steam ahead" kinda cars.

Not to say that running an S-Class can't be a great experience. They can be very relaible cars, giving year after year of top service to the owner. But, when something does go wrong, or age creeps in, you're not getting a bargain on the repair. V-8 engines are not inexpensive for things like head gaskets or timing chains. The electronics on these cars are numerous and complex. Diagnosis can be expensive, and repair costly too. Even things like cabin air filtration systems are much more complex and costly to maintain than on the C or E Class brethern.

I've seen few indie shops with the experience or tools to effectively look after an S-Class W140. Only dealerships or major MB repair centres have the facilities to do it, and that means you've got to pay top labour rates to make sure they have the right gear.

Things like Self-Levelling rear suspension can give years of trouble free service, but when repairs are required, it ain't cheap. It's just that the S-Class cars have ALL the gizmos, and then some.

And the 60,000 miles is just a number. I've seen cars with half that mileage that are not worth buying. Mileage is a poor indicator of care. Look for a car with meticulous service records, including oil and filter changes. Has the car sat for an extended time period? If so, I'd be careful. Non-driving-time is VERY hard on MB's, and can cause all kinds of problems. These cars need exercise.

Has the car changed hands lots? It could be a big headache if so.

Who is the original owner, and the current owner? I like to find cars where the owner has the resources to truly care for the car. Do they let their teenager drive the car?

Don't be in a rush to own an S-Class. Take your time and buy the right car. Set aside a reasonable budget to care for it, or be prepared to be unhappy.

BTW, this is not just true of the MB products. A 7-series BMW, LExus LS, Inifiniti Q45 or Audi A8 are the same. Expensive to buy, depreciate enormously after five years, and are costly to operate when compared to their smaller siblings.

To all the W140 owners bemoaning how your overblown luxo-tank wasn't recreated in a new incarnation for the W220 series:

Drive a 1990 or 1991 560SEL in exemplary condition. Note connection with road and lightness on its feet, not to mention totally decent power from the 240 hp SOHC 5.6 liter V-8. Also note reasonable repair costs (AC repairs definately not as expensive) and how tossable the car feels compared to the "barges".

Then repeat three times: "Why the hell am I bemoaning the W140's demise?"

If only the W140 had been an evolution of the W126 design. I feel like the W220 car brings back the spirit of the original W126 car (Think of how technologically advanced the W126 was in 1979, with ABS, aluminum OHC V-8 engines with high redlines, 4-speed automatic transmissions, and double-wishbone suspensions).

-Sam

MBZ380SE, I can NOT agree with you........more! You hit it right on the head. The 140 is an anomoly at best. Everybody hated it when it came out, now everybody loves it and think the 220 is some freak 'o nature. Compared to the 140 when it came out, the 220 is solid GOLD.
Ronald, I also agree with blackmercedes comments wholeheartedly, so read them carefully. You didn't state the year, I assume a 420 isn't too old. No matter the year, one thing blackmercedes didn't comment on was leaking steering gear boxes, so watch for that. I'd like to double up on the warning about leaking A/C evaporators, this is a big big job if it needs to be done. Is the car new enough to get a Starmark warranty? I think about the only way i'd buy is from a dealer under the Starmark plan. I do love the 140, don't get me wrong on this, just be careful.
Gilly

I agree with you Gilly and disagree with mbz380....I have owned a 126 in the past and now own a 140....I don't even think the cars are comparable....the 140...although much heavier feels more nimble than the 126 by a long shot...and I actually think the 220 evens feels more nible than the 140...in regard to repairs...yes the 140 is very expensive and I would even consider one that had sketchy records
It has many creature comforts INCLUDING a great stereo..one of the things that has NEVER been a MB strongpoint
The 140 is quieter,faster,rides better and is more nible than the 126...and they way I figure it driving everyday with all the extra creature comforts is worth something especially since the original owner took the lionshare of the depreciation so the purchase price for me was FAR lower that what the orginal owner paid

Warren
1992 300SD
Columbus Ohio

I see a lot of debate between owners of the 140 and 220 S cars, but it seems that no one ever has bad things to say about the 126. The problem is: the newest 126's are almost 12 years old they are starting to get a little dated looking, and most of the ones I see for sale (and on the road) are "finished." I define finished as in a state of neglect and disrepair to a point whereas repair costs exceed the value of the car if it were in a respectable condition.

To the 140 owners: For someone potentially looking to upgrade sequentially to the next s-class body style (ie: me, upgrading to a 140, someday) are the later years of the cars (1997-1999) significantly improved on a reliability basis? For me to buy a 140, I would probably budget at least $30,000 and try and find something with less than 40k miles. How reasonable would it be for me to assume that a 1997 S420/500 would make it to 100k over the course of approximately five years without thousands spent in repair costs?

Gilly & Blackmercedes
 

Gilly & blackmercedes for what its worth its a 93 S420. I do know a little of the background. It was a crash that was fully repaired and aproved by a Mercedes Benz Dealer here in N.Y.(I saw the car being rebuilt with my own eyes) The previous owner bought it crashed with 25000 on the meter. It looks physically intact a real cream puff, But gosh i don`t know I had a 87 300E that was so problem free i figure i can`t go wrong with another Benz. I would have bought another E class but i grew out of it they are a little small compared to the S. I can`t go back to a small car. As for a warranty i don`t know if i can get one, How old does the car have to be for Mercedes to warranty it ?