Right. A 1998 C230 retails for about $28,000 here. A 1998 C280, same condition is about $32,000. $4000? Yikes! The base price for a C230 in 1998 was $37,950 and the C280 was $49,995.

The twelve grand shrunk to four! And no, the C280 was not that much better equipped to account for the price difference. The only equipement difference was a driver's side power seat and standard Tex vs. cloth. A C230 with roof, heated seats and Tex was about $43,000 with delivery. A similarly equipped C280 was $54,000. Still $11,000!! That difference shrinks every year as the car ages.

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John Shellenberg
1998 C230 "Black Betty" 240K

http://img31.exs.cx/img31/4050/tophat6.gif

True about the fact that as time passes the resale values on the C230 and the C280 will come closer and closer. But, an interesting twist is that there will be a point in time that the C230 will actually be worth MORE than the C280 in the used car market (considering that both cars are in very similar shape).

The S-Class W140 it is right now suffering an interesting phenomenon in Germany and most countries where big and thristy engines are avoided: a similar condition/model year/mileage S320 is MORE EXPENSIVE than an S430/S500. And this weird occurence happens even taking into account that usually an S430/S500 is much better equipped than an S320.

As times passes by, things gets much worse: just look in the trade and confirm that a W126 300SE/SEL, no mattter what condition or shape, will get more money than a same model year 560SE/SEL.

A. Rosich
S320, 1998
E320T, 1995

That is why simpler, cheaper cars hold their value better. ....

I don't agree with that statement from an ealier statement..if that was true I think Hyundai should have incredible resale value..


In regard to a 126 300SE surpasing a comparable 560 SEL in value....if the value of today;s cars of the same condition are looked at I think you will find this not to be the case...the 300SE of say a 1990 vintage have gotten really cheap..in fact not much more than the 124 300E of the same year

In regard to a no frills 140...why would someone want that?...Is one reason you buy a luxury car is to have the later conveniences and safety features.....sure you will pay more for maintenance but just think about the guy who took the initial hit in resale....I am certain the second buyer,even with more maintanance issues comes out a head


Warren
1992 300SD
Columbus Ohio

Hyundia is not a good example. We're talking about comparing the resale values of various Mercedes cars.

The BMW example is used to show what can happen to resale if a model is too costly to maintain in the long term. The 750 is one of the least expensive used BMW's on the market.

Your example of the W126 300SE and W124 300E being close in price is right. The gap at MSRP has vaporized. In fact, the 190E 2.6 prices are not much lower either.

There is only so much money a 13 year old Mercedes sedan is going to be worth, regardless of original price. They were produced in relatively large numbers, and are at a point in their lives where it could cost tons of money to keep them up.

Also, to the casual observer, there is little difference in late 1980's models as fars as cache goes. Your neighbour probably won't come over and gush over your 1989 560SEL knowing it was the flagship in it's day. They are just as likely to acknowledge a 300E.

During hard ecomomic times, or during high gasoline prices, smaller more economical cars may sell for more than their more expensive stablemates. We're not talking about a Hyundia Excel selling for more than an S500. But, in terms of percentage, a car like a Toyota Corolla may hold a larger percentage of it's original value.

The other factor is where you live. There might be a strong market for used S-Class cars in California. Not in my neck of the woods. Most people that can afford a $75,000 used car, can afford a $100,000 new one. Used S-Class cars are heavily discounted in order to actually get them into the used market. A used 1998 C230 will retail for about 70% of it's MSRP, but a 1998 S500 sells for about 55% of it's MSRP.

At under $30K, there are WAY more buyers for the used C-Class than for the nearly $70K (originally $125K) used S500.

Also, the used S500 competes with a new E320, where the used C-Class has no new Mercedes competitors.

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John Shellenberg
1998 C230 "Black Betty" 240K

http://img31.exs.cx/img31/4050/tophat6.gif

I agree with you somewhat Black Mercedes.....couple of points I have......in regard to your comparason of 98 C230 and 98 S500...I think its fair to say that the S500 sold for a heavier discount from the sticker price than the C230,therefore your percentage of resale needs to be based on actual transaction prices rather than sticker. I remember years ago a dealer in the Dallas where I lived claimed they were the largest Infiniti dealer in the world...they used to run ads that advertised 15K off the sticker of a new Q45...now the Q's don't have great resale value but when you factor in the fact that people were paying 37K not 52K(sticker) that makes a big difference when you calculate resale..the 140's sold for a quite a discount I know from at least the 97 model year...so the $93K 98 S500 should have actually sold for about $79K...three years later in good condition its worth almost 50K.....not the greatest...but a lot better than many other cars...62% after 36 months
In regard to cache...I always think of a statement that says..."those that you would like to impress...you can't "...reason being they already have a brand new 220 parked in the driveway and traded in their 80's era 560 15 years ago


Warren
1992 300SD
Columbus Ohio

This has been a very interesting thread to follow. I always wanted a 92 400se but ended up with a 500e. MY brother has an s320 (92) and has the same catalog of woes I see here . I have all the service docs on my car and to date it has been almost trouble free.
I dont know if any of you have access to Auction pricing, but right now there is a flood of W140 cars available, and they are going in the low $20k range.. I assume the dealers know a substantial cushion will be needed on these cars for potential problems.
Best wishes to all.

__________________
John
92 500e, 85k, silver/gray,all stock.
96 Club Wagon,Hypertech chipped( College Hauler)
97 320 SL 50k
1980 BMW e21 323 Baur conv.
1990 300GE 99k

Year-1993
Color-Obsidion Black/Charcoal Leather
Miles-101,384
Special Options- My S-class has every available option. I love this car. I'm 16, (My dad bought a S500 Grand Edition and gave me his old 300) and would not sell this car for the world. My dad had it specialy orderd in '93 and kept it since. It has the power rear bench seat, Voice activated phone, Heated front and Rear seats, Power rear headrests', Charcoal Filter, 4-zone climate control, and 12-disc CD changer, ASR Acceleration Slip Control, Chrome 16" wheels, wood and leather trimed steering wheel and shift knob. AND ITS A SHORT WHEELBASE! The only option it lacks is ADS (The Adaptive Damping System), and thats because they didnt have ADS as a "special order" option in 93'. The 500 has ADS, and I prefer my car better. By the way, am I the only one who thinks the 11-speaker Bose Betta II Sound system is the best system ever put into a car?

I guess it would be interesting to those who have followed this thread to know that my friend who bought a W220 a few months back (he also owns a W140, as I mentioned a few posts back) return it to the dealer for a full refund.

Basically, his complaints were:

1/- The W220 is half the car the W140 is.

2/- The W220's bottom seat compartment is extremely uncomfortable for his usual driving position.

3/- The W220, in the few weeks he owned it, had to visit the service department about six times (including repairs for a xenon headlight that burned constantly, erroneous or constant false messages from the computer, plus a serious ABC suspension failure).

4/- The paint faded very fast without reason.

On the other hand, his W140 has performed flawlessly.

You may draw up your own conclusions again about the issue of which series is better (W140-W220).

He is now waiting for a pristine condition W140 to show up at the used car department to acquire as a second car instead of the brand new W220 he bought.

A. Rosich
S320, 1998
E320T, 1995

Herr Schrempp recently admitted MB have had quality problems.

My 2000 E430W4 had major service issues in the 19 months I owned it (steering rack replaced, etc.), leading me to trade it in for a 2001 S430, which has been basically trouble free.

Our 2000 ML320 has had numerous faults (steering angle sensor, power seats, cracked bottom plate on 3d row seat, various electrical gremlins). OTOH no problems at all on the '01 SLK320.

I believe any problems with 220-series cars are more the result of MB's recent execution issues than any design-specific flaws. Overall, the car looks and feels more nimble and much better executed than the 140 (to me), without sacrificing any space. I love driving it. The 140 was perhaps the pinnacle of MB *damn the costs, do it right* engineering, but to me the 220 is much more fun to drive and much more practical to own and maintain.

My 2000 S500, does not even have any minor faults. It is due for service A this wednesday. The car has been great and fun to drive.

My 2002 S430 has been trouble free. Great Car!

At the risk of extending this thread longer than it is, read this from Consumer Reports and weep!:

Consumer Reports VS MB

__________________
Regards . . . . JimF
-------------------
'94 S500 Cpe

Visit my Mercedes Web Page

Seems to me the only real "experts" on this thread are those that owned both or currently own both...we all know how a 10 minute test drive is not truly representative of living the car day to day



Warren
1992 300SD
Columbus Ohio

I might not owned the W140, but I have driven that car for a week(98 S420)
This is what I like:
1. Less noise on highway
2. Feel stable and heavy
3. Big seat.(Bigger than the LX470)
This is what I don't like
1. It is too huge to park(longer than my LX 470)
2. Old style interior with a not really good leather material(like my 97 e420)
3. Gas mileage!!(not as worse as my LX470)
4. Nimble(like SUV)

Just an opinion... No offense
After driving that car and then drive 00 S500, is different. Its all about technology and sportiness. I can push W220 hard on a corner, not to mention the performance of the engine. Of course it feel smaller inside. But, it really fit me right. Easy to park, good gas mileage, less maintenance, styling.

Looking at the new pictures available of the soon-to-be-released new Mercedes-Benz Maybach limo, it is obvious that this car is what definitely M.B. must have used as a proper replacement for the W140, and not the controversial W220.

The W220 is due for a facelift at the end of the year. Maybe some of the major faults mentined could be corrected, although I doubt it. Mercedes needs a fresh new page to start with.

A. Rosich
S320, 1998
E320T, 1995