......actually it's what the original owner "lost" in resale. I wouldn't buy a new car on a bet. It's one of the worst investments you can make. I make no apologies on having less than $10K total invested the '90 420SEL you see above. It's in very good condition and is mechanically sound. And yes, I'm crazy about it which means I think it's a great car ( semantics ).

I personally don't think the W140 is "alot" more car than the W126. I do think it's alot more money and will cost 5x to maintain. To say a Honda accord has all the features of a W126 is simply ludicrous. Your logic is skewed. However if you are in some way trying to denigrate the W126's due to their lower repair/maintanence requirements, you're actually helping me make my point.

Here's a quote you made in an earlier post in this very thread....

"....my personal example has had over 20K in repairs in the last 3 years"

Yikes !! :eek: You could prolly get a good Accord for that too !

You have your right to your own opinion. So we'll just have to agree to disagree.

:)

I will agree with you on that one....the only reason I brought up the Accord is the fact that you mentioned the maintenance on a 140 versus a 126..as a HUGE selling point...I merely stated the fact because I got the impression that 99% of your buying decision was based on that
Trust me I knew that repairs were going to cost more on the 140 when I bought it....everyone has to realize that..but yet they still sell..anything that complicated and expensive has to be expensive to repair...thats common sense
not 5 times as much...double yes..but then the used cars are bringing substantially more.. its kinda like remodeling the 100K versus the 250K house...you make different decisions


True statement...BUT were they all absolutely necessary..who knows..the Mercedes Benz dealer(much to the dismay of the warranty co) thought they were...some of them could have been done at a much more reasonable cost...I am sure
A person who does not a car in warranty faces some different issues...but when the car is in warranty...who cares...as far as I was concered the MB dealer could have replaced every element in the car as long as it was not at my expense
why?..do you say..because after the warranty I have a car chock full of MB parts that I will probably never have to worry about again...were they necessary... again who cares...they were newer than the parts that were taken off...hence should last through my ownership of the vehicle and be a selling point when the time comes
and by the way Todd..you need to ask someone who has had a starmark warranty how many $$ in repairs they have had..no matter what model I am sure the figure will astound you...why is that?..because the dealers never repair,they replace and they constantly look for things that are "about to go" and replace them while you are there...heck evertime I took my car in they always replaced something that was "about to go"..usually to the tune of another 1500-2000 dollars

Warren
1992 300SD 160K
Columbus Ohio

Both are excellent cars by any standard. The W140 has a nice comfortable ride. The W220 has a nice firm ride, if you compare it to the W140.

I agree....I think anyone would say that anyMB was an excellent car especially in the period that it was built
I have driven the 220 and frankly I like it...it will handle circles around my car...almost BMW like...but I think my car car handles much better than the 126....so each generation bears many improvements



Warren
1992 300SD 162K
Columbus Ohio

The "power headrests" in my 1994 S420 (assembled 9/93) had only the one-way power. The headrests had to be manually pulled up, but the touch of a button causes then to fall (quite literally). Also...look how long it to for them to put an automatic trunk release on the car. Amazing.

Having said all of that...I agree with all of you that it will be a long time before MB finds a suitable replacement for the 140. The 220 is not that replacement. I'm always amazed at how dignified and important the face of the 140 looks. Why its as if we have interupted an important meeting the car was having and it had to take the time to glance at you! What a car...the 140.

I would consider buying a 220...but right now that is not in my price range...when the cars get to say 30K on the used market maybe I will start to look.
I can honestly say for a car that size it handles incredibly


Warren
1992 300SD 162K
Columbus Ohio

Jim: what you have installed in the rear headrests of your 1994 W140 is a pneumatic realease (same system installed in the W124 sedans). This was the standard realese system for the rear headrests at all W140s (except the 600SE/SEL - S600).

To get the full power up and down rear headrests you had to specify the rear electrically adjustable seat bench (power recline) -which the 600SE/SEL / S600 had as standard equipment - OR the individually adjustable electric rear bucket seats (power recline + bottom seat distance).

The automatic release took such a long time to be installed in the W140 because this feature is basically a liked by the U.S. market only. Even when this feature was installed, the rest of world W140s would not get a dash mounted trunk release. The only way to remote release the trunk was by using the infrared remote control.

I think the remote release was not necessary
 

From the interior of the 140, unlock the doors and all you have to do is push in the key button on the trunk and it will open. Why was an interior release even neccesary.

well, what an education the posts to this topic have been.

it was difficult for me to gain enlightenment. there seem to be a lot of "rants" within this thread.

i was about ready to add a very immaculate, extremely low mileage 1997 w140c to my collection. a collection which tries to benchmark the design management of bruno sacco, whom i consider the premier auto design manager of the post ww2 era. but these posts have put me off a bit.

perhaps some of you would be kind enough to help me out. here is my story...

i have owned benzes since 1973. my first one was a 220. what a great car. i drove it to death. from houston to everywhere i could get to. in 1976 it had accumulated 140,000 miles and i replaced it with the first big car that i found to be as much fun to drive as my lotus. it was a 450sel. in 10 years, i put approx. 240,000 miles on it. i hated to retire it, but i supplemented it in 1985 with one of the first 300e's.

a fun car, more tossable than the 116, but it had some weird deficiencies, that benz did not want to recognize. so in 1986, i abandoned it for another sonderklasse, a 560sel.

there is no question that the 560sel was an improvement to the 116. more leg room. better seats. i quickly considered it the zenith of automotive design.

i still own it. it has 248k. it has been excessively well-cared for. few could guess its age or its mileage. and i still love to run it on houston rentabahn at speeds higher than a century.

in 1996, when i began to consider its replacement, family matters demanded a suburban. so i kept the 126 and added a gmc truck. i passed over the 140's and put in my future order for 2000 ML55 and S500.

in the interim, i test drove cars by renting them in the home of the stars, b hills. i tried e320cabs, xj8's, ml's, ls430's, gs400's. the worst car i ever tried was the ml320[what a rattling piece of junk]. the second worst car i ever tried was the ls430 with the lcd dash.

the lcd dash was so contradictory to safe driving. but at least lexus offered it as an option. which i took advantage of, i returned the lcd dash car back and exchanged it for the more analog one.

my conclusion was that none of these cars surpassed my 560sel. in any way shape or fashion.

so i awaited the 2000 benzes that i had ordered. the first one to appear was the ml55. as soon as i saw it after being advised that it had arrived, i refused to accept it. and then i was called to pick up my s500. when i saw its lcd display, i rejected it.

i said to myself, what i want is the command and control simplicity of my 560sel. and from that, i began to acquire benzes that met my design and driving requirements. i had never purchased used cars before, but now schremmp had forced me to do so if it was to drive benzes similar to the excellence of my 560sel.

my first acquisition was a very cherry 1979 450sel6.9. no miles. what a horse. unfortunately, the 126 sedan offered some things that the 6.9 didn't. more interior space, especially leg room. better brakes. less obnoxious bumpers. a more suitable tranny.

my conclusion is that the 6.9 engine should have been fitted in the 126 sedan body.

my next acquisition was a very cherry 1987 560sec. another great car.

last year, i found a e320cab. no miles. perfect condition. after pulling the passenger airbag and fitting a glovebox and removing the center console, i now have a 124 with driver features that i like...a center console that can hold any style coffee cup, etc.

anyway, studying on these cars, caused me to reflect upon the man responsible for their design - bruno sacco.

now, i want to add some of his other works to my collection. i don't go out of my way to do this, but from time to time, the impulse overwhelms me. this time, it was prompted by a classified for a 140coupe in the star. in my colors. but it was a 1994, 3rd owner in a snow belt location. priced right but a potential caution. so, i concluded that i should check the mbna starmark site to see if any low mileage 140 coupes were out there. there were.


and i have one 1997 on hold for the completion of my purchase. and then i tuned into this amalgam of ranting.

and so i have paused in this acquisition. i have been provoked to doing a real due diligence. my mechanic. a really good one, counsels me that the post 1995 w140c's are good. he says that he has never had one that required the evap replacement. but he also says that he thinks that there are better evap units out there than the ones m-b originally fitted. he also thinks that benz has secretly replaced scores of evap units in a secret warranty program. that may be excessively paranoid, but it would not surprise me if he has got it right.

on the subject of warranty, he tells me that i would not void the starmark if he/his shop does the fluid changes, routine maintenance. IS THIS CORRECT? he says that m-b dealer in houston only needs to get involved in the maintenance of this car when there is a real warranty issue under the coverage of starmark. IS THIS CORRECT? i want it to be...why?

because today i learned another lesson about using a benz dealer for service work. understand, i was one of the original customers of intercontinental motors when pennel opened it in 1976. i knew everyone. it was a conscientious shop.

and then the schnitzers and autonation badmintoned its ownership.

i have no hatred for those who have migrated north of the rio bravo, but the shop at mbna north houston would not be of my choosing today. i tried it today with my 560sec, just to find out if they were capable of servicing a 1997 w140c. and if i was a capable of tolerating their nonsense.

the answer to both is no. hell, no one there even knew what a 560sec was. i wonder what it would have been like had i driven in with the 6.9.

so, one of the questions about acquiring then owning a w140c is that starmark warranty work would require it going into this ring of hell. what do any of you think about that dealer service prospect?

LASTLY, I COULD ABANDON THE acqusition of the w140c and acquire another bullet developed by sacco and his team - a 500e. no starmarking option, but that would allow me to keep it in the hands of my freelance mechanic.

my freelance mechanic says, "buy the s500c. i haven't found them to be that problemattical. if warranty probs arise, the benz dealer can address it. and remember, you won't be without a car to drive".

as to the 500e, he says, "do that one too. but don't make it an either or proposition".

any comments?

In the next week or two I might get the chance to drive a W140. At this point, the W124 260E I have is essentially the nicest car I've ever driven.

Should I drive it? It's 500 class. Will it make me dislike my aging little Benz? It's nice driving the nicest car I've ever driven all the time :-)

Interesting statement...you in essense ordered $160,000 worth of cars and didn't know about the LCD dash etc..and odd that you would pick another ML after disliking one before...I assume you did drive both of these cars before you ordered them..ot did you order them sight unseen/undriven

as for the evap in a 1995 model..I assure you some 1995 models have had problems..that evap core pice for the 140 has been modified many times(per my tech at the MB dealer)..my personal car has had the job done twice..one in 1997 (shortly before I owned it) and once in 2000....BUT the good news is I hear if you pay to replace it at a dealer then MB will give you a goodwill 10 year warranty as long as you own the car
As for the dealer service and starmark...why not take it to a dealer..I have learned my lesson if you ever have a beef with MB over a goodwill fix or something that was done correctly the Zone rep listens to you when you have work done at the dealer....if you have fixes done elsewhere the burden of proof lies on you to convince that the repair was done correctly


Warren
1992 300SD 162K
Columbus Ohio

let me put it this way, when the ml series was first promoted by benz, it was a spectacular design. i put in an order based on those early design proposals. as you should know, what appeared bore no resemblance to the initial design[show car]. before my ordered car arrived at the dealer's, i rented one that was virtually brand new[less than 100 miles]in beverly hills. less than 24 hours i was returning it. it had rattles out the wazoo and the remote central locking system was not functioning and the windows once down would not go up].

returning to houston, and discussing the problems with my long term friend and service manager, he admitted that the ml's were having these problems. he suggested that i change my order for the forthcoming v8. he felt that it would have the problems resolved.

in the interim, i began to evaluate lexus products. in beverly hills one can long term test almost anything by renting from the budget agency. i tried a gs400 - wonderful rocket but no back seat space. i tried a ls400. the first one had their lcd dash - absolutely horrible to use[and at night a disaster]. i exchanged it for another one that had a more conventional dash. a lovely car.

but owning a lexus where i live made no sense, the nearest dealer was 65 miles away and i found lexus to be a marque that has some other foibles. oh, and when a lexus dealer opened that got closer, closer than the benz dealer, i tried the lexus suv, a lx470. what a horrible car. horrible seats. and the service dept was just a disaster. but at least the dealer had some honor, after 1100 miles of torture he repurchased the vehicle from me for what i had paid him for it.

but lexus had at least one good idea, you had a choice of a conventional dash or the lcd display.

benz unfortunately decided to force the lcd display on all - there was no other option. i found this an intolerable mistake. and my long-term service personnel friends at the benz dealer do not disagree with me.

as to the grand ml, benz went chrysler when it put the full size spare upright within the car. sort of like the jeep products. what a bit of stupidity. an SUV with no room in the storage area.

encountering these bad ideas[imv], i determined that older benzes were the answer. and my outlook has been rewarded. i am pretty certain that current and future benzes as chryslerized will not be on my shopping list. at least not as long as i can acquire low mileage older models.

as i think i said at the get go, my feeling had been that successor vehicles would be improvements. i do not feel that way now.

i shall close with this pov. within the last several months, i drove a very cherry 500e with less than 30k miles. beats any of the new stuff hands down.

so it goes

Every LS 400/$#) I have ever seen has the LCD dash...by that I mean the instruments pointers are actually the digital part..not sure where you found one with conventional instruments
In fact when the car is not started the faces are completely blank.
I too have driven the LS several times before I bought then last two MB's..but decided the car was too soft for my desires
As for a Lexus delaer in Houston I could have sworn that there was a dealer on I-10 near Town and Country Mall that opened very early(Sterling Mc call I believe) ..although I am not sure what area of Houston you are in..you hinted that you were near the MB Houston north..??...last time I checked that was only about 15 miles from the Town and Country area..??

Good luck with the 500E..if that is what your tastes are...I personally like the new E class...as well as the new s class...some of the safety features(which are very important to me) are not available on the older models

by the way what are you driving right now?



Warren
1992 300SD 162K
Columbus Ohio

well thank you...although I bought a used BMW 325 Convertible and lately I have been driving that car more often....

but yes the SD is fine..it was rough there for a while a couple of years ago...thanks goodness for warranty..:-)


Warren
1992 300SD 162K
Columbus Ohio

what am i driving as we speak? a mac ibook.

my benz collection, with which i try to rotate the driving is as follows...

1. 1979 450sel6.9. silver, blue leather. ortho seats. 50k

2. 1986 560sel. diamond blue metallic, blue leather. ortho seats. 248k

3. 1987 560sec. arctic white. blue leather. 78k

4. 1995 e320cab. polar white. blue leather. blue top. 9.8k

benzes no longer with me, but the providers of great memories...

5. 1973 220. dark green, tan mb tex. 140k when traded for...

6. 1976 450sel. baby blue. black leather. 200k when traded for...

7. 1985-6 300e. diamond blue metallic, grey leather. traded for 560sel.


and today, i added a w140c to the fleet.

8. 1997 s500c. ruby. black leather. 20k. in fact, i have just returned from making a 250 mile drive in the car back from san antonio.

so, those are the benzes that am driving when i am on the road, behind the wheel.

and i am still thinking of adding a 500e to the fleet.

so they go.....