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  #16  
Old 10-05-2007, 10:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by myanoch View Post
Is part # z8001-107773 full synthetic ?
why is this one $14 a liter
Mike, that's what I've been trying to find out. Based on the price, it might be synthetic... but it also might just be a Dexron-VI synthetic blend fluid. Nobody seems to know for sure. For those wondering, Z8001-107773 is the WorldPac part number for one of the OE Mercedes fluids (photo below), Mercedes # 001-989-21-03-10. This was originally for the 722.6 tranny, and not approved for use in our older 722.3/.4/.5 gearboxes. MB Doc says that the correct number for our cars should be 001-989-45-03-10, which is WorldPac # Z8001-286630, ~$12.50/liter.





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  #17  
Old 10-05-2007, 10:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Hatterasguy View Post
I know thats why I was using M1. But it seems like they keep screwing with their product.
Precisely! I almost had to stop using their engine oil, but thankfully they re-packaged Delvac-1 into retail gallon jugs as 'Turbo Diesel Truck' formula, at a decent price. They used to only have 6 different variations of their engine oil (with six different color caps, for easy identification). Now there are at least 15 (by my last count) with enough overlap and marketing spin to make you dizzy. Very, very annoying. Now with the ATF debacle, they're afully close to losing another customer... again...

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  #18  
Old 10-05-2007, 11:28 AM
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Here's photos of the old & new bottles. Note that the old bottle says "Dexron" all over the place, while the new bottle only mentions Dexron for (1) telling you to use their semi-synthetic Dexron VI fluid instead of Mobil-1, and (2) for use in power steering systems.










Last edited by gsxr; 12-31-2008 at 07:15 PM.
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  #19  
Old 10-05-2007, 01:30 PM
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I found out two things.
The MB fluid is not full synthetic (unless labeled) and it has a hydrocarbon tax on it, even if it is made for export. The last time I bought conventional motor oil in a PX in Germany it was $5.50/qt for generic for a lawn mower. The same tax applied in 2003.

I talked to a dealer (Ford) about this 6 months ago or so. My wife's car (SVT Focus w/ 6 speed Getrag manual) lists "Mercon V fully synthetic manual ATF" hence the head scratch when I showed them the SVT manual supplement. A senior mechanic (eventually highly recommended Redline - "That's all I've used in mine for 12 years.") said "Mobil synthetic without multi vehicle, NOT for manuals. Mobil synthetic multi vehicle works with anything listed." But for Chrysler ignore that and stay with +3 or +4.

I was hoping to be able to use the same fluid in BOTH cars but he was very clear about NO "multi vehicle" in an older trans.
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Last edited by C Sean Watts; 10-05-2007 at 01:36 PM.
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  #20  
Old 10-05-2007, 02:11 PM
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It looks like we're going to start going with AMSOil....there's a dealer guy right here in town that has it at good prices....we'll start off with the transmission fluid (synthetic) but might switch from Mobil 1 turbodiesel oil to the AMSOil Synthetic diesel oil...as its the same price or cheaper. We returned that acrid smelling Mobil 1 Synthetic ATF to autozone today...all 7 quarts of it. I am lucky...my car I changed the trans fluid back in May, so it was still the good Mobil Stuff.....I have half a quart left...and it does smell a lot different than the new stuff. Mine leaks nothing, so I should be good till next spring....when I will also switch to AMSOil in the trans....
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  #21  
Old 10-06-2007, 02:36 AM
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Dave

FYI, Joe's Sports (used to be GI Joe's) seems to carry a full line of Amsoil as well as redline and Mobil1, at least here in Portland. I think they have a fairly new location in your area. I haven't compared the prices, but they seem to be competitive.
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  #22  
Old 10-06-2007, 10:21 AM
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Thanks for the tip - I'll see if I can find a local store here in Bow-eyes.

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  #23  
Old 10-06-2007, 03:18 PM
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After this thread, next time I change the ATF this is what I will use.
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  #24  
Old 11-06-2007, 11:46 AM
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Update

I finally called Mobil - sorry it took so long, but I've been way too busy lately. Anyway, they said that it is not possible to certify a fluid Dexron-III any longer, because it's an obsolete specification. It has been superceded by Dexron-VI. That's all old news, we knew that. So, then I asked why the new M-1 MVF ATF is not certified Dexron-VI, and the basic answer is that Mobil-1 MVF ATF does not meet the requirements for Dexron-VI. Period. That's why it doesn't say "Dexron" anywhere on the label. They still want you to buy their non-synthetic Dexron-VI fluid for Dexron-VI applications, but make the nebulous claim that the M1 MVF should work in pre-2005 vehicles, they just can't formally put the Dexron-III approval on there. And, he didn't state if it did actually meet Dexron-III specs or not - I didn't specifically ask, but I bet he couldn't say, even if he did know the answer.


Another update: Amsoil's ATF appears similar to the Mobil-1 formula, but in a thinner viscosity to meet Dexron-VI specs. I'm not sure if Amsoil is officially licensed by Dexron, but Amsoil isn't shy about putting the Dexron name all over their spec sheets. However it still reeks like M-1 does. I tried this stuff in my '93, but I won't use it again.

Bottom line - Only Red Line Synthetic ATF has official approvals for Dexron-II, as well as official Mercedes approval (and it clearly states this on the label). I'd much rather use a fluid that has the official Dexron approvals, certification, and licensing. I added a new post later in this thread with more details on the Red Line ATF - skip ahead to post #51.


I sure miss the old Mobil... first they mess up their M-1 oil formulas, now they hosed up the ATF as well. If they ever screw up the Delvac-1 formula, I'll be switching to Red Line engine oil too...!


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Last edited by gsxr; 12-31-2008 at 07:28 PM. Reason: Updated information
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  #25  
Old 11-06-2007, 12:29 PM
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I probably should just start using Amsoil 5w40 as well. If Walmart drops Delvac 1 like they have in the past, then its pretty expensive to get from the dealer. So I'll probably just order a case of Amsoil engine oil.
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  #26  
Old 11-06-2007, 09:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gsxr View Post
I finally called Mobil - sorry it took so long, but I've been way too busy lately. Anyway, they said that it is not possible to certify a fluid Dexron-III any longer, because it's an obsolete specification. It has been superceded by Dexron-VI. That's all old news, we knew that. So, then I asked why the new M-1 MVF ATF is not certified Dexron-VI, and the basic answer is that Mobil-1 MVF ATF does not meet the requirements for Dexron-VI. Period. That's why it doesn't say "Dexron" anywhere on the label. They still want you to buy their non-synthetic Dexron-VI fluid for Dexron-VI applications, but make the nebulous claim that the M1 MVF should work in pre-2005 vehicles, they just can't formally put the Dexron-III approval on there. And, he didn't state if it did actually meet Dexron-III specs or not - I didn't specifically ask, but I bet he couldn't say, even if he did know the answer.


Bottom line - Amsoil ATF has official approvals for Dexron-II, III, and IV as well as Mercon & Mercon V. I'd much rather use a fluid that has the official Dexron approvals, certification, and licensing. Here's a link:

http://www.amsoil.com/StoreFront/atf.aspx

You can get a case of 4 gallon jugs for $144 (!) list price direct from Amsoil (that's enough for 2 Mercedes trans fluid changes). Yeah, that price is crazy, However, if you add the "preferred customer" option for $10, you get 'dealer' pricing, which drops the cost to $104, plus the aforementioned $10, plus shipping & tax. For me, it was $14 shipping, $6 tax, for a grand total of $134.27 shipped to my door. That's $8.39 per quart. I'm officially switched to Amsoil for my ATF now. I sure miss the old Mobil... first they mess up their M-1 oil formulas, now they hosed up the ATF as well. If they ever screw up the Delvac-1 formula, I'll be switching to Amsoil engine oil too...!


GM no longer issues the license for Dexron III thus no more labeling.
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  #27  
Old 11-06-2007, 11:14 PM
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Originally Posted by 300B View Post
GM no longer issues the license for Dexron III thus no more labeling.
Did you even read what I said? Or any of this thread? Here, let me trim it down:

"I asked why the new M-1 MVF ATF is not certified Dexron-VI, and the basic answer is that Mobil-1 MVF ATF does not meet the requirements for Dexron-VI."

And to refresh your memory further, Dexron-VI is backwards compatible with Dex-III. So Mobil could have made their product Dex-VI compatible, which would by default make it approved for Dex-III. But they chose not to. The new fluid is only Mercon approved. Dex-III licensing is irrelevant.


Last edited by gsxr; 11-07-2007 at 10:10 AM.
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  #28  
Old 11-07-2007, 09:39 AM
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gsxr,

Some great posts from you that I found very educational and useful.

Thank you for sharing!
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  #29  
Old 11-07-2007, 01:24 PM
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Just caught on to this thread. The '05 Taurus I recently acquired per one of the Taurus forums appears to run well on the M1 ATF as it meets the Mercon V specs.... found a bunch of it @ AutoZone for $41/case (6 quarts).

Now for my E300. I don't like to mess around with fluids from the aftermarket as the transmission is a delicate animal. My intents when I change the fluid in my E w/ the 722.6 tranny are to purchase the MB fluid, but, this thread got me thinking. Since my car is an older model, I'm sure the aftermarket has come up with a comparable fluid to the OEM MB fluid for my tranny. I liked using M1 Turbo Diesel 5w-40 but switched to the Amsoil Heavy-Duty Diesel & Marine 15w-40 since I live in a warmer climate and like the 15w protection. Would the Amsoil ATF work w/ the 722.6 w/o issues? Also what gear oil is recommended for the rear-end? I'd like to replace that as well.

Other E300 owners chime in as well.
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  #30  
Old 11-07-2007, 01:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gsxr View Post
Did you even read what I said? Or any of this thread? Here, let me trim it down:

"I asked why the new M-1 MVF ATF is not certified Dexron-VI, and the basic answer is that Mobil-1 MVF ATF does not meet the requirements for Dexron-VI."

And to refresh your memory further, Dexron-VI is backwards compatible with Dex-III. So Mobil could have made their product Dex-VI compatible, which would by default make it approved for Dex-III. But they chose not to. The new fluid is only Mercon approved. Dex-III licensing is irrelevant.

Regardless the Dex III license is null.

BTW,have you read your Amsoil link?

Look at the viscosity requirement at 100 c for Dex VI vs Dex III's.


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