engine cranks but It won"t start, Mechanical update
 

Well in frustration , I decided to line up all the mechanical timing components to make sure that we didn't have any mechanical reason to believe that our problem isn't electronic. the result was the same ......it cranks but not even a stumble. ...I'm going after a ignition control unit next ...whats left?

It has to be fuel or spark
 

Have you checked for spark while cranking?

yes ..we have spark,m but no start....the major question is do we have timing

If you have spark but no fuel, I assume you have to check out if fuel filter is clogged or fuel pump is dead? If you key on and fuel pump buzzes, then you know a filter is clogged right?
Not trying to thread jack, I am have same problem as 190e

Did you try using starter fluid?

yeah guys...Ive thrown every thing I could think of at this thing.

I checked each of the injectors...good misting on all of them...even the cold start value.
I but in new Bosch plugs
I check the boot for leaks and fit....every thing was good
I check fuel pressure and went through the fuel distributor check ....
there is nothing left ....
I check the spark on every cylinder
I check the dwell angle which appears to be low 3.6 from standard 9-45
I check the coil
I check every no start component on this darn thing according to the no start problem check list
which leads me to believe we have a electronic problem....which I have no equipment to check other than a VOM meter
so that where I am at

no start
 

i had a no start condition on my 190e that was caused my the wire to the temp sender for the cis being broken not sending a siginal to the ecm. It would try to start in lean mode. check the wire and the sender. hope this helps.
Joe

this may sound stupid, but it happened to me on my m103 (thankfully nothing was broken), but check to make sure you have the right firing order on the wires - if they are wrong you will still get spark, but not at the right time.

also, CPS could be the problem although if you have good spark it technically is ruled out.

what finally fixed my no-start condition was a new EZL ignition unit and new plugs.

I seem to have missed your post saying it did start with the starter fluid. You're sure about spark and fuel so next is to check air.

Check the AFM plate if it visibly goes down when you turn your key to Key-on-engine-off position. Also have some body start the engine and while cranking slowly push the plate down a millimeter or two. It happened to me once where I over adjusted my fuel mix and the engine was not getting enough air. It can also happen that the engine is getting too much air.

we tried that some time ago with no result......and with starter fluid ..it didn't even stumble
it getting clear that I think the problem is a timing issue.

I read that you mentioned teching all the sensors. Just curious, did you follow the trouble shooting guide from the MB manual?

yes, step by step

I suggest checking the compression - if the timing slipped you may have some bent valves, which would immediately be shown by either very low or no compression.

compression on all cylinders are about 155lbs +-3lbs so we have no bent values not bad for a car with 175k

That tells me your cam timing is ok, and the engine should fire if it has spark and fuel. So, remove a spark plug, lay it on top of the engine where you can see the tip, and turn the engine over. Does it have a good hot spark? If it has fuel and a hot spark at the right time it will run. Get a timing light and check #1 spark plug timing using the timing marks. If the timing is even close, it will fire, so I'm guessing you are losing spark under compression, or the timing is way off, or you have the plug wires connected improperly.

yes check that some time ago ....and rechecked...we are getting spark to the spark plugs ( I replaced with new Bosch plugs)..whether or not it is enough is another issue...I rechecked the mechanical timing by manually putting #1 to top dead , removed the the rocker cover to see that we were on a compression stroke and looked at the placement of distributor rotor and we were dead on #1

my thought was that we are have a Ignition control module issue...I have a line on a siemons out of a 91 190e for about $150 I am about to go there , but first I want to exhaust all other alternatives

question: how far away does the tdc sensor have to be away from the magnet of the in the from crankshaft pulley?

BACK STORY:I was under the front of the 190e looking for the TDC sensor to see if it was aligned with the rest of the mechanical timing. It was, but I notice that the front sensor was about 1/2 of a inch away from the magnet in the pulley .....it would seem to me that it should be closer ....but crap...you have to pull the water pump pulley and the crankshaft pulley off just to get to it. One of the previous owners stripped the the water pump pulley star head screws (thanks a-hole) so this is going to be interesting. any thought on this revelation!

Do you have the four cylinder or 6?
I ran into a bizzare situation similar to yours with a 2.6 where everything tested out fine but....... the #1 cylinder was firing on the exhaust stroke instead of the compression stroke, exactly one revolution off. The adaptor the rotor is screwed to was split at the back side and it slipped then caught the next time the groove came around so lining everything up looked fine on the crank marks......... We actuallly found it by accident.........finally. Pull #1 plug, rotate the engine by hand and bring the piston to TDC on the compression stroke.....then check to see if the rotor is pointed to #1 wire.
The spark should jump at least a 1/2 inch of air gap and "snap" pretty noticibly. It won't necessarily be blue because of the multiple discharge system used.

its a 4cylinder

I go back to basics, pull number 1 and turn engine till it's TDC compression stroke you or helper can put finger in hole to check for compression. Then remove distributor cap and make sure rotor is pointing to number 1 wire. If not either rotate wires or re install distributor so rotor points to 1.
That corrects timing, you have spark, fuel, and compression check throttle valve linkage verify throttle opens. It has to run the laws of physics say so, it's an engine.

Like I suggested in your last thread, please stick to one thread so there can be continuity in diganosing your problem.

If you have good spark,fuel,and comppression, just for fun see if your breather hose has come disconnected from the bottom of your intake as they often do on the 2.3s
Paul

I havn't seen where anyone has mentioned 'Exhaust'. It is just as important as fuel, spark and air. The converters can break up inside and completely stop up the exhaust. I would suggest you disconnect the exhaust at the engine, try to start, and see what happens.

all ready tried that , thats what has me puzzled , it seemed to fire hard. with a intense snap....yet no combustion

I agree...if the hose is disconnected on the bottom of the Idle Control Valve or at the bottom of the intake, the engine will not start.
Hate to use this expression, but, Been There, Done That.:)

1. You have spark.
2. You checked spark plug wires firing order.
3. You checked timing.
4. Are the spark plugs wet with fuel?
5. Is the vacuum hose in good shape and connected at the top of the Idle Control Valve going to the intake connection?
6. Did you remove the Idle Control Valve to make sure it is clean and slightly open when it is not operated?
7. Did you remove the air cleaner and slightly push down on the air flow plate while someone is turning the engine over?

yes to all your questions ...........I recheck the boot ...I about to recheck all the mechanical timing elements and try again...let you know how we fair

check the boot between the air sensor plate and the lower intake manifold, if it is cracked you will also have a major air leak.

well here's the great news, it's been sometime since I updated this thread...It was the fuel distributor. it was stuck in the wide open position. I sent it in to be rebuilt and dang if it didn't start right up. after some adjustment my daughter is enjoying her 190e. so I rebuilt this one for a grand total of $975.32 including the cost of the car. when and if she blows this one up ....it goes directly to auto salvage...no more Mercedes for me. Thanks to all that aided me on my mission .....it was fun(sort of)

fun times with a 190e
 

My 17 year old daughter bought her 84 190e last year and she has been working on it with me ever since. Good father daughter bonding. She has learned more about cars than most of her guy friends will ever know. This even included major body work after she rear ended an SUV. We orderd parts through e-bay and worked on it where others would have just sent it away to the junk yard. Lots of mechanical work too, where she learned how engines, brakes, trans, etc. work.

Financially, this may not have been the smart move but we have had a pretty good time. She loves the car. It's a 5 speed and she learned how to drive it in about 10 minutes. (Easiest clutch I've ever used.)

Old German car: $1100
Lots of used parts: $900
Time well spent with your teenage daughter: Priceless!

Finally fixed the problem
 

Ignition Control Module was bad. Thanks for everyone's direction. I also replaced the fuel filter since it needed to be replaced anyways.


Are all 190 4 cylinder ICM's the same from car to car, is the 16 valve different and what are the differences using a regular 8 valve ICM on a 16 valve car and engine??