400E - 210k miles - Maintenance wise what to do and what not to do?

[zeronero]

I'm currently at a crossroads, my 1992 400E has 210k miles on it and is in need of some maintenance, you could say all the usual stuff. What I'm debating is how far to go with this maintenance. Since I've had the car, for about 100k miles now I have NOT done anything to the timing chain, or anything to the transmission except for a fluid + filter change. So, there are two huge possible failures that could arrise at anytime, but no symptoms of anything bad about to happen. I'm thinking of doing a complete brake job which is a little pricey and wonder if it's worth dumping all this money into it if it might crap out soon. I'm wondering how much longer it can run without dealing with those two issues and if it's worth doing all this maintenance or just let to car go until it craps out and buy a new car. What would you do, and what maintenance would you suggest?

[emerydc8]

I am faced with a similar situation, but I have found that most people on this forum--including myself--would not hesitate to put more time and parts into our cars per month than it would cost for a monthly payment on a new car.

I often find myself toeing a fine line trying to justify to my wife that I'm making a rational decision to dump as much into our car (not to mention my own time) than a new car payment would cost. I'm not sure why I do it, but that's how it is. Maybe there's a certain degree of pride in fixing it yourself or operating one of the last cars that was designed and built in an era when cost-control was not the underlying theme and Mercedes didn't have the fierce competition it has now.

My neighbor used to DIY too, but when he turned 65 and threw his back out, he took his W124 to the dealer for a leaking hose. They replaced the entire cooling system and hit him with a bill for over $1,700. That was the last straw for him. He traded it in on a new LS 460. I don't blame him. I think it would be hard to argue there is any better sedan out there for the money nowadays--no matter how much we all like MBs.

Brake pads and rotors for this car are not that expensive and they really don't take a lot of time to do. I can do the front pads and rotors in less than 45 minutes. The rear pads and shoes hardly ever wear out. You should consider yourself lucky if you've made it this far without rebuilding the transmission. I paid over $3,500 for a rebuild in July, after all was said and done.

[zeronero]

I've been very lucky with my car, it's really had no major issues since I've owned it and just seems to keep going. I'm very religious with regular maintenance which might be why the car has been so trouble free, but I also suspect that I was lucky and just so happened to buy the right car. I guess it's really down to my own decision on whether to go thru with the brakes or not, guess we'll see

[peterhardie]

Your chain is going to go. If it goes like mine did, it is already eating up chain rails, silently. Your harness is also going to fail.

So, the question is, how much do you like it, and are you willing to spend the money to keep it. Sounds like you are worried about throwing $$ at it. In that case, fold your hand. It is going to cost you more money. I had my trans rebuilt, chain replaced (with all the rails, had to pull the fron covers off the engine) harness replaced all between 160K and 210K. Which is what I expected. At 300K I had to replace the air conditioner evaporator.

It ain't a cheap car, even if you do most of the work yourself.

I am selling mine, and won't make anywhere near what I have put into the car. had fun with it, put 150K on it, not sure I would do it again.

[emerydc8]

I can count, on one hand, the number of times I let my car go more than 2,200 miles without an oil change and filter. Maybe it's overkill, but I haven't had any major engine issue yet, other than the ongoing need for valve seals. I read that the 119 engine is one of the more unforgiving engines for long oil change intervals.

I was looking at doing the valve seals and timing chain myself, but I would need over $700 in tools and I'm not sure I want to risk not getting the four cams lined back up correctly. Other posters have recommended that this is a tough DIY job to tackle unless you've seen someone with experience do it before.

I am thinking about pulling the heads off myself, taking them to a good machine shop (someone that knows MB), and then towing my car to a tech when the heads are finished, so I can watch him torque them back on and get the cams installed correctly. I would probably tow it back home afterwards and do the remaining work. That way, I wouldn't have to worry about buying or renting the special tools and I wouldn't have to worry as much when it came time to turn the key.

[deanyel]

Originally Posted by emerydc8

I read that the 119 engine is one of the more unforgiving engines for long oil change intervals.

It has to be one of the more forgiving engines - very tough engine, top and bottom.

[suginami]

Yes, the cost of maintenance on our old cars can some months equal the monthly payment on a new car, but we don't have the highest expense that new cars have: depreciation. Our old cars have virtually stopped depreciating, but a $50,000 new Mercedes E class will lose slightly more than half of its value over the first four years.

Thus, the monthly cost of depreciation of a new E class comes out to about $520 / month, and this is on top of the monthly payment.

Save your money and keep this car on the road.

Originally Posted by suginami

Yes, the cost of maintenance on our old cars can some months equal the monthly payment on a new car, but we don't have the highest expense that new cars have: depreciation. Our old cars have virtually stopped depreciating, but a $50,000 new Mercedes E class will lose slightly more than half of its value over the first four years.

Thus, the monthly cost of depreciation of a new E class comes out to about $520 / month, and this is on top of the monthly payment.

Save your money and keep this car on the road.

People either seem to be unaware, forget, or choose to ignore depreciation expense. Myself, I'd rather let someone else pay that cost!!

[suginami]

Originally Posted by mrhills0146

People either seem to be unaware, forget, or choose to ignore depreciation expense. Myself, I'd rather let someone else pay that cost!!

Yes, if you look at the cost of car ownership on Intellichoice, depreciation is the single highest expense of owning a new car; higher than maintenance, insurance, or even fuel.

[nissanzx1]

I guess it's more of a matter of philosophy to me. Older cars are cheaper to insure and property taxes are low.

The rate at which a new car depreciates is mind-blowing. If you buy a new car, you are grouped into 2 categories in my book: 1) You're a complete idiot. 2) You have so much money that it simply doesn't matter (there is nothing wrong with this, as long as it's really true).

Your car is one of the last truly great automobiles. I would rather sink $2,500 in my car today, then pay $600/mo for a new car for the next 6 years with an inferior build quality...

It's all in how you approach the issue...

Good Luck,

-GH

[hanfrac]

I think it's over-simplistic to say "well, you're smart to have a depreciated classic car, so of course you should repair it rather than allow yourself to own something that depreciates." At 210k miles without these repairs having been done, he has a car that is worth maybe $1500-2000 on craigslist. The original poster is potentially looking at:

- pads and rotors and sensors ($1200?)
- timing chain and rails and tensioners (cost me over $2500 on my 500E 4 years ago)
- wiring harness ($1500? - I'm guessing on these costs, so please forgive me if I'm way off)
- evaporator ($1500? $2000?)
- transmission ($3000+?)

These could all come in rapid succession. So if all of it happens in the next 24 months, you're looking at maybe $8000-10000 to keep a $2000 car running. I spent something like $7500 in a 12 month period on my 500E on things like this. And the fact that I had a car that wasn't depreciating like a new car did not make me feel one bit better.

I loved my 500E (got rid of it 3 years ago) and last month, I was in the market to get another 4 door sedan. I thought really hard about a 400E/E420 and the 300E/E320. Between head gaskets, wiring harnesses, timing chain rails, AC evaporators, etc., I just couldn't do it even though I could buy a nice example for $5000. I ended up picking up a 1999 C280 in very nice shape for a little under $9000 because it doesn't have all of those known high ticket failures. I'm sure I'll learn over the next few years where this car is weak.

If it were me, since the original poster's car runs great and there are no signs of imminent doom otherwise, I would do the brakes and keep driving it. But be ready to bail when the grim reaper comes.