Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help



Go Back   PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum > Mercedes-Benz Tech Information and Support > Tech Help

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 07-20-2001, 03:18 PM
RunningTooHot's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Here
Posts: 876
I know how utterly *rabid* some people become about the coolant “issue”. So here’s some fuel for the fire & ire.

http://www.evanscooling.com/html/home1.htm#welcome

Enjoy

RTH


Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 07-20-2001, 03:48 PM
G-Benz's Avatar
Razorback Soccer Dad
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Dallas/Fort-Worth
Posts: 5,711
Very compelling article...just as I had my Prestone-laden 300E flushed out and refilled with MB coolant two weeks ago, only to be plagued by yet more overheating issues. This time, I replaced the thermostat, coolant tank cap and replenished lost fluid, so I'm now seeing if it works.

With the Texas temps hovering in the 100s, I am concerned about the coolant mixture and pressures working properly.

Wish there was an MB endorsement somewhere about this product...
__________________
2009 ML350 (106K) - Family vehicle
2001 CLK430 Cabriolet (80K) - Wife's car
2005 BMW 645CI (138K) - My daily driver
2016 Mustang (32K) - Daughter's car
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 07-20-2001, 05:37 PM
RunningTooHot's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Here
Posts: 876
Uh Oh

Before this goes any further please understand that I did not post the link as an endorsement or recommendation. AT ALL. I thought it to be somewhat interesting from both a technical perspective, as well as (possibly) a snake oil marketing perspective. But now I must digress, as I don’t *think* that this is *actually* snake oil. In fact, it may be quite good in certain *specific* applications.

If you dig further in their site, you will find that the viscosity is higher, this may be why they have specific pumps for some of the most common applications.

RTH
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 07-20-2001, 06:33 PM
sixto's Avatar
smoke gets in your eyes
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 20,802
Seems to be more of a whole snake than snake oil. From the little I read, you need to get the compatible pump and radiator to get the benefit.

I didn't read anything on the transition characterisitcs. It might take an hour to get to operating temperature... if it ever gets there.

I also didn't see anything on cabin heater effectiveness and compatibility with various climate control systems. It might not be such a popular system if it can't heat the cabin in winter.

Sixto
91 300SE
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 08-03-2001, 05:57 PM
longston's Avatar
Another View. . .
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Mark West, CA
Posts: 787
This Is Worth Looking Into...

I just got off of the phone after speaking with a customer service representative at Evans Cooling Systems. If anyone has specific questions they need answered, they can also call them at 1-888-990-2665.



Here's what I found out. Evans makes the only true engine coolant aside from water available anywhere. Their coolant replaces the antifreeze/coolant AND the water in your cooling system. Their original product, NPG was designed for use in race cars and specialty market applications, and was supposed to be best used with their hybrid radiators and water pumps, but I have also spoken to at least two race teams that use the stuff with out any mods at all.

But Evans now makes a product for general use, called NPG+, that will work in any vehicle without any modifications other than to replace the radiator cap with a 7Lb. pressure cap. The product will transition just like what you currently use, will heat efficiently in the wintertime allowing proper climate control operation, and has only one drawback that I could see, and that was initial cost. But when you consider that this product will go an almost unbelieveable 500,000 mles without a change, the cost of $25 a gallon is negligible compared to $10 for two gallons of crudstone every 15,000 miles.

Go to their website and check out the benefits that this stuff has to offer. I'm seriously thinking about converting over for good.
__________________
"We drive into the future using only our rearview mirror."
- Marshall McLuhan -

Scott Longston
Northern California Wine Country...
"Turbos whistle, grapes wine..."
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 08-04-2001, 12:13 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: oregon
Posts: 2,013
I cured my overheating problems in my 81 Sd with the drilling 1/8 inch whole in the thermostat method the I found in the search section (I think I typed in "drill thermostate" direction very clear complete with drawings, car is running a steady 85 no matter what outside tempiture is.
William Rogers.......
74 240D
81 Sd
81 2wd 454 Blazer hot rod
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 08-04-2001, 05:43 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Posts: 166
Admittedly I did not read the entire Evans Web Site, but one subject I did not find covered in the reading I did was the matter of water pump lubricant. It is my understanding that one of the reasons for periodic replacement of the current crop of anti-freezes is that the additive for lubricating the water pump either dissipates or wears out.

If the Evans coolant lasts 300,000 miles or more, what provision is there for the continued lubrication of the water pump? I did notice that in at least one of their long term tests they stated that no major parts were replaced. Is a water pump considered a minor part?

Hope someone can shed some light on this question for me. Thanks.
__________________
Ted
1979 240D
165,000 miles
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 08-04-2001, 09:19 PM
longston's Avatar
Another View. . .
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Mark West, CA
Posts: 787
Post This Is An Uncomfortable Position...

I am being made into an evangelist for a product I have never used, and a company I don't represent.

But here goes anyway:

From: www.evanscooling.com/articles/aug98oc.htm

"Through the mid ‘70s, most antifreeze contained silicate additives which were abrasives that kept the mineral deposits, in the water, from building up in the cooling systems. Because the silicate additives were abrasive, they also destroyed water pump seals. A water-soluble oil was added to the antifreeze solution to protect the water pump seals. This oil was called water-pump lubricant.

If you used straight water in your cooling system during the summer months (distilled water worked best) you also had to add a pint of rust inhibitor/water pump pump lubricant to the water. Now you know why.

Of course, if there was a way to eliminate the water in the coolant, all of the problems associated with water would disappear as well."


As I understand it, the main purpose of using a water pump lubricant additive is to counteract and/or prevent the formation of rust & scale that will damage the water pump seals. The water pump shaft and bearings are "protected" within the seals themselves...
__________________
"We drive into the future using only our rearview mirror."
- Marshall McLuhan -

Scott Longston
Northern California Wine Country...
"Turbos whistle, grapes wine..."

Last edited by longston; 08-04-2001 at 10:14 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 08-05-2001, 12:05 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Posts: 166
Thank you very much, Scott. The second paragraph of the text you extracted still leaves me somewhat puzzled, however.

It appears to me to say that even if you used distilled water (no mineral content) and no antifreeze (no abrasives to remove minerals), you still had to add a rust inhibiter/water pump lubricant. Am I misreading this or am I just too dense to understand what is being said?

Appreciate your going to the trouble to dig that out for me.

Upon rereading your post, perhaps the key work here is "rust" which could result even from distilled water. Is that the clue?
__________________
Ted
1979 240D
165,000 miles
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 08-05-2001, 01:33 AM
longston's Avatar
Another View. . .
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Mark West, CA
Posts: 787
Lightbulb Answered Your Own Question...

..At least I think you did. Oxidation is a property of water when in contact with metal, distilled or not. Water is highly corrosive whether distilled (which can leech minerals to acquire balance), or tap (which has too many minerals, albeit dependant upon the actual hardness of your water). Corrosion comes in two forms, scale build-up and or rust, a disolving of mineral salts, and oxidation.

But Ethelyne Glycol is also a highly corrosive substance (especially when heated), so you add the two together to get the cooling properties of water, and the antifreeze qualities of EG, but you also get serious corrosion, so you add silicates, and an anti-corrosive agent like amines, nitrates, or (currently in the green stuff), phosphates. But the Europeans found that due to the extreme hardness of their water, that the phosphate corrosion inhibitors cause these minerals to "drop-out" of solution, and form either a mineral slurry, or "stalagtites" that break loose and clog restricted passagesways when combined with other similar mineral formations at the same location. Or both. Then you add to that the electrolysis caused by multiple-metal engine components (aluminum, brass, copper, iron, etc.) with this slurry flowing through it, creating a negative electrical field, adding to that, the erosion caused by the abrasive liquid "sand-blasting" the cooling system and it's ancillary components, you have the recipe for premature cooling system component failure.

All of this also causes cavitation, erosion, and clogging that results in hot-spots, that in turn results in uneven cooling, and overheating of critical engine components. But I haven't even mentioned what happens when the "coolant" comes in contact with the extra-hot surfaces of the cylinder head. When his happens, the water in the "coolant" turns to steam, and is repelled from the heated surface, to only come in contact with cooler liquid, that causes the steam vapor bubble to explode, sending a shock-wave from the detonation back to the head, where it removes all protective coatings that are there and can actually result in a deterioration of the metallic surface itself.

Mercedes-Benz Antifreeze, Anticorrosion Agent addresses the phosphate issue by replacing it with a specially formulated compound produced by BASF, called "G-05", or Glysantin. This eliminates the minerals from "dropping out" of solution, But it does not adequately address the detonation issue like Evans NPG+ does by replacing the troublesome water component entirely.
__________________
"We drive into the future using only our rearview mirror."
- Marshall McLuhan -

Scott Longston
Northern California Wine Country...
"Turbos whistle, grapes wine..."
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 08-05-2001, 03:42 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Posts: 166
Hmmmmmm! Wonder why MB, in fact all auto manufacturers, have not adopted the Evans coolant as a factory fill? It would be more expensive, yes, but they could claim a lifetime coolant already installed. Cheaper in the long run. And, it apparently might avoid some of the problems we see in this forum frequently about heads warping from overheating, leaking head gaskets, etc.

Think I would be willing to pay a bit more for a car so equipped.
Also think I will look into the possibility of using it in my present cars.

Thanks for the explanation, Scott.
__________________
Ted
1979 240D
165,000 miles
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 08-06-2001, 02:03 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Boise, Idaho
Posts: 80
I've search Evans site and it appears that radiator with smaller than 1 inch pipes won't allow sufficient circulation of the coolant. I e-mailed a request for information on their "thinner" coolant for passenger cars. I'll post it when I get it! Roger
__________________
Roger
1983 300CD 246k sold
1998 C230 52k
1980 450SL 75k needs AC
1999 Subaru Outback Ltd 43k
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 08-06-2001, 10:02 PM
longston's Avatar
Another View. . .
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Mark West, CA
Posts: 787
Exclamation Someone Missed Some Details...

There are two different Evans coolants. There's the regular NPG, which has a viscosity similar to syrup, and the NPG+, that is similar to regular coolant. NPG+ can be used in confidence with no modification to your cooling system, with the possible exception being a change to using a 7Lb. pressure cap.



Check out this link to the details on NPG+:

www.evanscooling.com/html/npgPls.htm

If I gotta keep doin' this, I'm chargin' Jack Evans a commission...
__________________
"We drive into the future using only our rearview mirror."
- Marshall McLuhan -

Scott Longston
Northern California Wine Country...
"Turbos whistle, grapes wine..."

Last edited by longston; 08-06-2001 at 10:13 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 08-06-2001, 10:23 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Posts: 166
You have earned it.:p
__________________
Ted
1979 240D
165,000 miles
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 08-06-2001, 11:06 PM
rainmaker's Avatar
Woo hoo!
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Asia
Posts: 563
Interesting...

Scott,

What is the pressure rating of the OEM pressure cap? What happens if you don't change the pressure cap to a 7 lb. one?

Couldn't one (theoretically) just run it with the stock pressure cock in a slightly open position? Or am I missing something here?

Thanks!

__________________
Rainmaker
93 500E, 43k mi, Pics of upgrade parts
Evo II Wheels on Dunlop FM901 235/45x17s
94 Facelift
RennTech CF Airbox
RennTech ASR Defeat
RennTech Chip
1st Gear Start
97 Range Rover 4.6 HSE Vitesse, Yellow, "Tonka" (sold)
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
How good are twist sockets? sokoloff Tech Help 1 11-01-2004 11:31 PM
headlamp bulb, twist out or pull out? Help! spinedoc Mercedes-Benz SL Discussion Forum 2 04-09-2004 08:24 PM
black cylinder with twist knob on top hocky1 Tech Help 1 04-11-2003 06:39 PM
Drivers seat twist Nigel Morris Mercedes-Benz SL Discussion Forum 1 04-05-2002 09:57 AM
Stalling with a twist on a 300TE dasboot Tech Help 2 03-20-2002 03:43 PM



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:52 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2018 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Peach Parts or Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page