DEAD cylinder: Valve + rocker arm craziness - Page 2 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

david s poole · #16 02-20-2008, 10:07 AM

one of your pics gives the impression that the so called mechanical lifter on that valve has collapsed into it's housing[which would be described by po description of event].look at last pic you posted and compare the levels of the balls.

blankenship · #17 02-21-2008, 11:09 AM

well, i pulled the fuel injector, and the tip looked fine.
then i pulled the valve adjuster bolt/bushing/mechanical lifter, and it looked fine.
then i went and bought a valve spring compressor.

I was gonna do some reconnaissance on that #1 valve, and tried to follow meltedpanda's advice on judging TDC by the relative movement of a dowel rod through the #1 spark plug hole while turning the crank.
BUT THAT'S WHEN MY TROUBLE STARTED: that dowel rod on my #1 won't move a hair

(all the other cylinders do).

Sounds like that means my piston's locked up, or i have a massive hole in it, or the piston shank is broken, or somehow the valve is interfering with it's movement? (i'm guessing the fact that i have the valve adjuster and rocker arm removed from the #1 cylinder isn't affecting the results?)

I'll tell you, I sure wish them Kentucky boys were here! (C'mon guys, it's only 2500 miles (each way)! I'll buy the beer. (and food. and a new couch, and....) (By the way, I'm from Louisiana...my mom's from Tennessee and lived in Kentucky for 5 years back in the 60's.)

Anyway, I'm up for giving head removal / R+R a shot, if you think it could lead to solution. But, man, I'm gonna need some serious coaching. Y'all up for it? Maybe we can turn this into a great "how to"?

Q's:
1. wondering if my situation necessarily means "Engine Rebuild," or if it's possible it could be solved with head removal? (the engine turns with the starter, and, with what i'm guessing is more effort than it should via a 24mm socket on the crank. makes kindof a 'squeak' each time...remember my compression results, previous owner diagnosis, head/valve job history, etc)

2. do i have to remove the camshaft carrier/housing first, or can i just remove the whole head without separating the carrier?

3. can i remove the head without the special tools (rocker arm removal tool, camshaft holder tool, impact extractor and bolts for bearing pins in slide rail and guide wheel, etc)

david s poole · #18 02-21-2008, 11:48 AM

based on what you now know i would suggest that water ingestion into #1 is about the only event that could have caused this and that you will find one very bent rod on #1 as you tear it down.[something has to explain the lifter being so much lower on #1 intake valve]

meltedpanda · #19 02-21-2008, 12:53 PM

LOL , 2500 miles, if it were 2000, I'd consider it

.
I really think you have a serious issue, pull the head and take a look, Now I am hoping the cylider wall is ok. As dog has noted you don't really need the special tools, they help , but not necessary, and yes I believe the cam has to come off. with all the plugs out of thier holes , turnign of the engine should be fairly easy with the flywheel nut. If you are hearing squeeking and crunching - that is not good

blankenship · #20 02-23-2008, 03:27 PM

well, i just tried pumping some compressed air into that #1 cylinder to see what would happen.
I think i'm at TDC, (see photos to verify) and i've got no spark plugs in the car. When I turn on the air to pressurize the #1 cylinder, i get a pretty strong air flow out of the spark plug hole on cylinder #3, lesser flow out of #6, and a minute amount out of #2.
HOW COME?

blankenship · #21 02-23-2008, 04:42 PM

lord have mercy.
mystery SOLVED.
engine TOAST.

went to do some pokin' around under the car (for the first time) and noticed a big pool of oil down there. wondered why, since she wasn't leaking when i got her...(none on the ground where she sat, none on the trailer after towing, etc).
remembering i had added 2 quarts, i figured it was that same 2 quarts that was on the ground. i went looking for the source of the leak, and it wasn't too hard to find:

THERE IS A 4-INCH HOLE IN MY MOTOR!

it's right above the oil pan on the driver's side. (you can see it in the first photo (taken from next to the driver's side front wheel)).
you can see it's location in the second photo, if you follow the white dowel rod down...

WHAT IN THE WORLD?
HOW/WHY DID THAT HAPPEN?
i BET the previous owner DID "hear a 'poof,'" and i BET the car did "stop suddenly."

now what?

donbryce · #22 02-23-2008, 05:40 PM

I'll bet when you drop the oil pan, you'll find the part that punched out the hole. Likely a connecting rod. Time to pull the engine and do a serious take-down.
I'm a little amazed how you didn't notice 2 quarts of oil pouring out of the hole, or how one would proceed this far and not see the hole....

Chas H · #23 02-23-2008, 06:45 PM

I was wondering if the rod came out the engine.

a2aa · #24 02-23-2008, 06:49 PM

SAY WHAT??? Yup, bastardize it. Whether it's a bigger M117/M119, GM 350, Ford 302.....The slate is empty and the imagination is endless.
BTW, I have a 78 280 ce with a FORD 302 (295HP) with edelbrock carb single pumper

. Have you ever heard of BADBENZ? He had a website before. The CE has an LT1 GM crate. Everything else in the car is stock. What A SLEEPER!

meltedpanda · #25 02-23-2008, 11:02 PM

wow,

mystery solved, that is a serious failure

blankenship · #26 02-24-2008, 10:50 AM

so, now i guess i pull the motor, and look for an engine donor.
really need to know: what are the chances my HEAD is still good?

because there's a '73 280c nearby that could be a donor TODAY. she's got a bad body, but the motor and tranny seem okay. (i'm gonna go do a compression test today).

so, question is:
are there any differences between that '73 carbureted M110 (110.921) and my '77 injected M110 (110.984) that would prevent me from doing a head-swap and install?
in other words, can i put my injected head on the older carbed motor, and drop 'em both in my 280e? i think the 110.921 is actually a higher compression motor...if i can put the injected head on it, it might be a great/fast setup?

Chas H · #27 02-24-2008, 11:14 AM

I think you already know the valves on the affected cylinder are bent.

t walgamuth · #28 02-24-2008, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by donbryce

I'll bet when you drop the oil pan, you'll find the part that punched out the hole. Likely a connecting rod. Time to pull the engine and do a serious take-down.
I'm a little amazed how you didn't notice 2 quarts of oil pouring out of the hole, or how one would proceed this far and not see the hole....

Its not always that easy to see.

Give him a break!

Tom W

cth350 · #29 02-24-2008, 11:53 AM

M110 motors are cheap and plentiful used. Take this one apart just for the joy and pleasure of learning what it takes. Then buy a used motor.

As you saw from the receipt, getting the head & valve box milled and guides replaced can be anywhere from 400$ to 700$ depending on the level of work required (though 700$ is a lot; probably overpaid for guides).

Getting the block done is going to be closer to 3,000$.

There was a 280SL parted out on ebay a few months back. The motor was discussed here a bit. I got it for a whopping 56$ because it was in a non-running state and the guy didn't want to ship it. I'll be putting it into a 280C to upgrade it from carbs to FI. Presuming of course, that I can get it to run.

In theory, you can use the carb'd block with the FI head. But, before you remove the head from the carb'd motor, match up the mounting studs and stuff on the blocks. Make sure nothing's missing.

According to the books, you can even use a FI head with a carb. Benz doesn't stock spare carb'd heads. They just close the injector ports.

Once you have the head off the damaged motor, bring it to a shop to check for straightness. You might find it a chore, but removing all the parts that should be oil lubed from the FI head and replacing them with the carb'd parts should give you a functioning motor. Having the shop lap the valves would probably be a good thing.

-CTH