thanks AD. I will read thru the forum to try and figure out how to pull the cluster.

Did any body mention posible faulty ignition switch? I didnt read all the the pages. I would take the switch out with a paper clip and turn it with a screw driver to see if you get power to the starter.

Yes , we did... the ign sw is in the feed circuit we are checking now.

morning update. I listed this as a new thread in case someone has had a similar situation with arming the ata.

I am running through diagnostics with the very patient help of A. Dalton. We have covered testing fuses, battery, x27 x49 and are up to pulling the instrument cluster to check k38.
Before I did that I wanted to post what i discovered this morning about the ATA system in hopes that someone my have experience that would help me.
The ATA led would not arm from the driver's side door. Today i discovered that it will arm (start flashing on the dash) from the rear hatch and from the passenger side door. The drivers side door will not disarm the alarm. IE if i unlock the driver door and open the alarms go off. However if i then close the door and lock it the alarm is disabled. Both the passenger door and hatch will arm and disarm the system. I tried cranking each time between arming and disarming by various doors but still no crank. At least I know the ATA led is powered now.

To be darn sure, I took the battery for testing and sure enough... it failed the test generating 580cca and 12.7 volts. Seems kinda borderline but at least it was the correct battery (by interstate book) and i ordered a new one for late today or tomorrow. That will go in and i will post results.

A Dalton, Hope you're still willing to help.
I installed new battery and pulled the instrument cluster when the tools arrived today. (not as hard as I thought). I pulled free the round connector with 15 wires behind the fuel gage. I am assuming this is the k38. The pins are arranged in a circle. I jumped 1 & 3 (on the harness connector not on the pins protruding from the cluster). No start. I checked for voltage on both positions in the crank position and got zero. any help appreciated.

You just pull the relay. It should be towards the upper/left of the dash opening. [ behind the gas gauge location] There may be some insulation in front of it.

Look for a small , regular looking relay. Pull it and jumper 30 and 87 ..plug it back in and try to start the car.............................

Thanks. I will get on it first thing in the morning.

Found the relay just where you described.
soldered across 30 and 87 and plugged in.
on crank position the horn blows steady but no start.

Make sure the alarm is not armed
All doors closed and hood closed.

Is horn steady, or is it repeating on/off ...like alarm mode?

horn is steady.
If I turn to crank horn on. if i turn back one click horn off and if back to crank horn on...
I will go down and try it with all doors closed and make sure alarm is deactivated by door locks but I don't think it is the alarm since it's just steady in crank position. The relay is clearly labeled and I know i jumped the correct positions. I also double checked the x49 in case I did not confirm good ground on previous attempts and got no voltage at 3 or 4 in crank position. I do have a spare parts car and could grab the relay out of it if this relay is suspect. I will post again in a few minutes after repeating the k38 test.

Looking at your schematic, I think you have mistakenly jumpered 30 and 87a.

Check that your jumper is to 87 , NOT 87a.
87a is Armed mode and will blow Horn.

will double check that too and be right back

I did publish a photo of the relay here
http://web.mac.com/fulltimefamily/iWeb/Site/Photos.html
mine has three pins label 86, 87 & 3 (no 87a)

Are you telling me that relay has only 3 pins??