Parking Brake Shoe Replacement: Drum will not budge - Page 2 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

speace · #16 06-04-2008, 02:59 PM

Your first photo comparing the curvature of the shoes seems to indicate that they are not the same curvature, which would say you do not have the correct replacement shoes.

How does a new shoe fit the inside of the drum if you hold it in there with the parts off the car? The curvature should match...

azurite300E · #17 06-04-2008, 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chadahar

I'm in the midst of doing the brakes on my 1989 560 SEC so this is interesting to me.
Just a thought, could you possibly have them in upside down (read rights on the left and lefts on the right or are then symmetrical?? My new ones are in the box and I haven't looked at them yet.

Interesting point, but as far as I can tell, all four shoes are identical (aren't they?), so there should be no way to mix them up. If they have to be used in a specific way I'm guessing that they would be properly identified and packed, which they are not. All four look identical, and are packed together in the box.

No mention of any differences among the shoes in the service manual CD either.

azurite300E · #18 06-04-2008, 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by speace

Your first photo comparing the curvature of the shoes seems to indicate that they are not the same curvature, which would say you do not have the correct replacement shoes.

How does a new shoe fit the inside of the drum if you hold it in there with the parts off the car? The curvature should match...

I've loosely fitted the two remaining shoes into the drum/disc that I'm working on now and the curvature seems to match pretty well. Please see pictures bellow.

On the other two shoes that have already been installed, the drum doesn't fit over them just by a small margin, but enough to make it impossible for the drum to fit even if one would try forcing it on. The total diameter of those two installed shoes is slightly larger then the inner diameter of the drum.

azurite300E · #19 06-04-2008, 05:27 PM

I think I found something, please look at the pictures bellow. These are the "end-pins" that go into the star-adjuster of both the new (left) and old (right) shoes. It is quite clear the pin on the new shoe is much longer, and this might be the reason why the drum will not fit over them once they have been installed.

The pin on the old shoe roughly measures about 9 mm, and the one on the new shoe measures 12.5 mm. In the third picture you can actually see how much needs to be cut off in order to match the old shoes.

BTW, the other ends of both old and new shoes match perfectly, that is where the slot that goes towards the "spreader" is located.

Please correct me if I'm wrong on this, but I'm seriously considering sawing the pins of the new shoes down to a size that will match the old shoe's length.

Any suggestions or ideas if I'm on to something here?

Chadahar · #20 06-04-2008, 06:28 PM

As long as there is enough room for the lower notch in picture 3 I don't see what it would hurt to shorten the ends. You may have to elongate that notch for the shoes to work properly.

Yepper the brake shoes come in a box and look to me to be symmetrical, so no right or left or up or down. Just looked at mine.

Whew, If I had the cd's to show how to do the brakes and rotors on this SEC it would have been a whole lot easier. Right front took about 2 hours to get figured out and disassembled. Left side took less then 20 minutes. Yes I do learn quickly and better yet at my advanced(LOL) age I still remember.

However If I'd have realized that I had to remove the hubs to disassemble the hubs from the rotors I'd have probably just taken it to my Indy. I don't have the tools to split the hub and rotor , so I took them to a local shop to do that. The price was very reasonable and he didn't care that I had my own parts. He even volunteered to put the new rotors on the hubs for the same money..... Needless to say, they'll get more of my business when I need them. Not specifically a MB mechanic, but they do a lot of foreign cars...and old Mopar's(my kinda shop!)

I'll do the rear when I get the front back together. Those should be a lot easier. Luckily the Calibers were in great shape. And the fluid was clean when I cracked the bleeder to force the pistons back into the calibers.
Then the baby will have new shoes (Pads, rotors) all around.

azurite300E · #21 06-04-2008, 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chadahar

As long as there is enough room for the lower notch in picture 3 I don't see what it would hurt to shorten the ends. You may have to elongate that notch for the shoes to work properly.

I've cut down the tabs on both new shoes and they look now exactly like the old ones, including the lower notch. Will install them tomorrow and we'll see how it goes [fingers crossed]. Still need to go through the removal process of the other ones that don't fit, and also work the parking brakes on other side too. Busy day ahead...

Martineau Gauda · #22 06-04-2008, 08:55 PM

Is the bottom cable adjuster frozen, or is the cable adjustment the problem? Make sure the bottom of the shoes are seated correctly in the cable adjuster slots.

Just did my parking brakes on C280 and everything has to be centered correctly before the rotor can be put on. Looks from the picture that the bottom parking brake adjuster attached to the cable is not fully retracted. Also make sure the top of the shoes ears are fully seated in the adjuster.

Had problems with the bottom adjuster attached to the cable being completely frozen with rust. Lots of work cleaning and freeing the mechanism.

Hope the helps

Martineau Gauda · #23 06-04-2008, 09:12 PM

Also, on the bottom spring should it install and loop from on top instead of going under the shoes?
May not make a difference but I know the top spring has to be installed from the bottom and go under the star-adjuster.

I made note that the bottom spring was installed on top when I did my parking brakes.

If the bottom cable adjust is not free it will create the problem you are describing.

azurite300E · #24 06-04-2008, 09:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martineau Gauda

Is the bottom cable adjuster frozen, or is the cable adjustment the problem? Make sure the bottom of the shoes are seated correctly in the cable adjuster slots.

Yes they are, I made sure of that, and it really was a big PITA to get them to fit.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martineau Gauda

Just did my parking brakes on C280 and everything has to be centered correctly before the rotor can be put on.

There is no way I could make the drum fit, if I pushed the shoes inwards so they would not hit the side of the drum, then the same thing started happening on the opposite side.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martineau Gauda

Looks from the picture that the bottom parking brake adjuster attached to the cable is not fully retracted. Also make sure the top of the shoes ears are fully seated in the adjuster.

Had problems with the bottom adjuster attached to the cable being completely frozen with rust. Lots of work cleaning and freeing the mechanism.

Hope the helps

I checked the bottom adjuster and it moves freely, very little rust. Also, if you see the distance between that metal post in the area of the lower spreader, and the shoes, you can see there isn't much space left for the shoes to go further inwards, and not even close to get rid of the extra bulging that prevents the drum from getting over the shoes anyway.

In any case did you see my post about the new shoes being somewhat longer then the old ones? The side with the tap/ear that goes into the star adjuster that is. I've already cut down the tabs on both new shoes, and now they match up EXACTLY the length and shape of the old ones. They where somewhat too long and that is why the drum would not fit over them, even with the star adjuster set for minimum spread.

Not really sure whats going on here, both my old shoes and disc/drums are original MB with the star logo on them. The drum has the correct part number too. Maybe its the star adjuster spreader that is a bit longer in this case, who knows. But then, why are the ears on the new out of the box Meyle shoes somewhat longer then my old ones??? That is the obvious question.

Will try to install them tomorrow, and then I'll see if they finally fit.

azurite300E · #25 06-04-2008, 09:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martineau Gauda

Also, on the bottom spring should it install and loop from on top instead of going under the shoes?
May not make a difference but I know the top spring has to be installed from the bottom and go under the star-adjuster.

I made note that the bottom spring was installed on top when I did my parking brakes.

If the bottom cable adjust is not free it will create the problem you are describing.

I took pictures before disassembly and both springs where on the bottom. The service manual seems to suggest that too, although the drawings are unfortunately not 100% clear in that respect. I've attached a screen capture of the 42-0530 job, as the forum would not allow me to post the whole file in PDF (91Kb).

CORRECTION: now that I recall, the bottom spring goes on top, the upper goes on the bottom, just under the star adjustment wheel.

Martineau Gauda · #26 06-04-2008, 09:38 PM

I did read about the difference in size. Maybe there is a mistake in the label and they are in-fact the wrong shoes.

Still the bottom cable adjuster does not appear fully retracted because the pin on the left is deeply inside the mechanism. On my car there is an automatic adjuster under the rear seat. I can release the side specific cable from the automatic adjuster under the seat to see if the adjuster is fully retracted and the brake rotor would go on.

Also I would make sure that the parking brake is completely released by pulling up on the parking brake pedal while activating the release.

azurite300E · #27 06-04-2008, 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martineau Gauda

I did read about the difference in size. Maybe there is a mistake in the label and they are in-fact the wrong shoes.

Still the bottom cable adjuster does not appear fully retracted because the pin on the left is deeply inside the mechanism. On my car there is an automatic adjuster under the rear seat. I can release the side specific cable from the automatic adjuster under the seat to see if the adjuster is fully retracted and the brake rotor would go on.

Also I would make sure that the parking brake is completely released by pulling up on the parking brake pedal while activating the release.

I'm assuming you are referring to the picture I included bellow. But have you seen how little clearance is left between the fixed metal post under the spreader and the shoes? Very little, and not nearly enough to make up for the shoes bulging out to the sides. In any case tomorrow when I take them out I will check again on that lower spreader.

In regards to the parking brake cable, besides releasing the lever, I went under the car and slackened the adjusting screw that is on the "Y" junction (near the muffler), and now the individual cables going to each wheel are very loose.

Thanks for all the excellent input.
-Alex

Martineau Gauda · #28 06-04-2008, 10:30 PM

Is there any possibility that one of the shoes is stuck on the raised lip of the back plate. Shoe must be brought forward to clear raised lip or the lip will catch the metal mounting of the shoe and interfere with the shoe seating properly. The spring may firmly hold the shoe against the lip interference

Just checking, you appear to have checked most other obvious possibilities.

Good luck

azurite300E · #29 06-05-2008, 06:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martineau Gauda

Is there any possibility that one of the shoes is stuck on the raised lip of the back plate. Shoe must be brought forward to clear raised lip or the lip will catch the metal mounting of the shoe and interfere with the shoe seating properly. The spring may firmly hold the shoe against the lip interference

Just checking, you appear to have checked most other obvious possibilities.

Good luck

Both shoes are properly seated on the lower spreader. I'm sure because it really took me some serious fighting to be able to fit the lower spring and then have each shoe properly fit over it's corresponding side of the spreader. Thanks.

azurite300E · #30 06-07-2008, 11:25 AM

The day before yesterday I was able to finish this job. Fortunately I was able to cut-off the tabs on the right-side shoes I had already installed without having to completely remove them again (and those hard to remove and install springs!), so after that, put them back together and the drum just fitted perfectly over them.

Then I did the left side, and you can see the before and after pics bellow. BTW, that shoe hold-down spring on the last pic is now straight as it should.

Needless to say, parking brakes are now working beautifully once again.