My 84 190E has 166,000 miles on it and still has the original timing chain. I would hate to have it brake or derail and crash my valves.

Should I change it as a precautionary measure??

__________________
Patrick Leber
'84 190E 2.3
'83 Porsche 944 (track car)
'84 Porsche 944 (parts car)
85.5 Porsche 944 (sled)

Chains do wear. Chains affect timing and performance. When one does jump the sprockets the engine will try to disassemble itself! If you really want to know whether you should change it consider that the bottom end of a mercedes will last several hundred thousand miles on average. The heads need a valve job every 175k to 200k miles according to some mechanics. The only real weakness in the overhead cam M/B engine is the chain. I would say spending only a few hundred to change out a chain with over 100k miles on it is just plain smart. Why risk it? (but then I see people smoking cigarettes everyday that think cancer won't strike them)

The M102.961 engine in the 1984 190E & the M102.985 engine in the 1985 & 86 190E2.3 are subject to timing chain BREAKAGE! Also these are the only MB engines that requires inspection of the timing chain every 60k miles! DON'T wait, I have bought 3 of these cars with this problem for under $800. in very good shape otherwise.

__________________
MERCEDES Benz Master Guild Technician (6 TIMES)
ASE Master Technician
Mercedes Benz Star Technician (2 times)
44 years foreign automotive repair
27 Years M.B. Shop foreman (dealer)
MB technical information Specialist (15 years)
190E 2.3 16V ITS SCCA race car (sold)
1986 190E 2.3 16V 2.5 (sold)
Retired Moderator

Wow, 60k inspection on a chain! Yikes, and I have almost three times that on ther ole odometer.

It looks as though I'll have to pencil this job in on the calendar. While I have done many, many timing belts, it has been a long, long time since I replaced a chain. And that was on big detroit iron 383 in a mopar. And that was in 1982....

__________________
Patrick Leber
'84 190E 2.3
'83 Porsche 944 (track car)
'84 Porsche 944 (parts car)
85.5 Porsche 944 (sled)

"If the chain is noisy at start-up, or if you're looking for some peace-of-mind, then have it changed"

When I start my 190e (85, 120K) after it has been sitting overnite, it sounds like a diesel (sorry, folks who have older diesels, no disrespect meant!) for 3-4 seconds, and then the oil pressure gauge goes up, then the noise goes away. If I start it when it has been sitting only a couple of hours, hardly any noise. Is this what you meant by noisy startup? This noise has been there for a couple of years now.

My questions:
1. How urgent is it to get this done?
2. What else should I get done along with it?
3. How many hours labor is such a job (approx.)?

thanks a ton,
Rags

I have experienced timing chain tensioner failure after 3 months on my 16V. Not a pretty picture. Be sure that you check with MBNA or the dealer for the proper p/n. The previous owner's mechanic used a "superceded" (in other words, prone-to-failure) M-B chain tensioner. Definitely not something the screw around with. You can imagine how much a 16V cost to put back together!

__________________
Charles Cleaver
1975 350SE + 1992 300CE-24 SportLine 5-speed + 2002 SLK320 6-speed + 1974 W114 280
1986 190E 2.3-16 (Decomm rear self-leveling suspension; Euro-code headlamps) sold
2004 Audi S4 6-spd - sold
1969 (2) and 1980 Porsche 911T, S, and SC - alas gone
1987 300SDL - Graf Spee; Euro-code headlamps; 16-inch 8-hole wheels - sold
1994 E420+(E500 suspension/E-code headlamps/PAD chip) sold
1968 250SE 4-speed (NICE car) - long gone
1962 220S 4-speed/column mount - long gone

Thanks a ton for your responses.

Charley, since you had the unfortunate happen (timing chain tensioner failure), you could educate us all a bit - what were the symptoms JUST before failure? Also, what kind of $$$ are we talking about in fixing up the engine - 2K/less/much more?

Rags
190e 2.3 (85, 120K)

I'm taking my car for an oil change tomorrow. What should I ask my tech to check for (regarding timing chain and tensioner)? Is it easy to check for chain stretch? Basically, I hear the rattling sound on startup only in the morning, so when I am at the shop, the tech obviously will not hear the sound. So what can he do to diagnose if it is indeed due to timing chain/tensioner, and not something else like valve lifters?

thanks a ton.

Rags
190E 2.3 (85, 120K)

If you do not have the current standard chain tensioner installed, have it done immediately. Don't let an independent check the p/n; verify it with a dealer. There are a lot of the superceded ones out there in inventory with parts houses.

Mine failed at idle basically "lunching" one piston, a bunch of valves, etc. Tab: $4K.

The cold temp rattling sound indicates the old style tensioner.

__________________
Charles Cleaver
1975 350SE + 1992 300CE-24 SportLine 5-speed + 2002 SLK320 6-speed + 1974 W114 280
1986 190E 2.3-16 (Decomm rear self-leveling suspension; Euro-code headlamps) sold
2004 Audi S4 6-spd - sold
1969 (2) and 1980 Porsche 911T, S, and SC - alas gone
1987 300SDL - Graf Spee; Euro-code headlamps; 16-inch 8-hole wheels - sold
1994 E420+(E500 suspension/E-code headlamps/PAD chip) sold
1968 250SE 4-speed (NICE car) - long gone
1962 220S 4-speed/column mount - long gone

Thanks again for your responses. I am going to get this work done ASAP.

I checked with the dealer and he says 5 hours of labor. that sound a bit much to me - what do you say? And while at it, what else should I get done? Upper rails, guides, clean valves?

Also, if someone could give me the OE part number for the tensioner and chain, that'd be terrific.

I'll keep you'll posted on my experience.

Rags

OK, I went to my guy today (for oil change). After filling in the new oil, he started the car, and there it was, the rattling sound for a couple of seconds. I heard it from 40 feet away. When he was done, I asked him about it, and he said he didn't hear it!! Then I asked him how many hours would be (labor) for the timing chain, tensioner and upper rails, and he said 8 hours (Yes, I am never going back to him again!!).

My question is - how may hours labor should it be to change the timing chain, tensioner and upper rails (and anything else that is within easy reach in this job, and should be done)? The dealer says 5 hours, this guys says 8, many people on the web say 2 hours - that's a big range.

Steve/Benzmac - could you please enlighten me on this?

Also, does having fresh oil in the engine give me some more time (maybe a month or so) to get it done, or it doesn't matter, I should get it done right away? Just want to space out some expenses. But don't want the engine ruined either!

thanks,
Rags
1985 190E 2.3 (120K)