. . head gasket or radiator for W140 - Page 2 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

loubapache · #16 10-09-2001, 11:01 AM

JimF:

Please keep us posted.

Bo

JimF · #17 11-29-2001, 01:05 PM

Have now about 900 miles since adding No Leak and the leak is definitely less. But it has not stopped.

The pic shows the top of the Coolant Overflow tank and the little spots of oil are visible. It's not alot, so I'm just going to continue to ". . watch it"!

Any comments?

JimF · #18 11-29-2001, 02:12 PM

Here's a shot of a paper towel dipped into coolant tank. You can clearly see the oil but, the good news is that there's not a lot of it. Taken together, theres not enough to cover the nail of your little finger!

Comments?

JimF · #19 03-25-2002, 12:31 PM

I've put an additional 1500 miles since my last report. The leak has dimished but it's still there! Overall, since the addition of the NOLEAK, the leak has been reduced. So it has done some good but I think the side effect that it produced should make other users take notice.

I started to notice that my oil pressure gauge required more engine RPMs (after the engine is fully warmed, 80C and above) to force it to full scale. For example, about 2500 RPMs.

Last week, a tick-tick noise started. It appeared to be a lifter on the right side of the engine. It was there at startup and at all engine speeds.

Note the ticking turned out to be bad OIL TUBES! Check this thread: Tick, tick fixed tnx to Donnie!

There's a lot of reasons why this can happen but I believe it was caused by the reduced flow through the oil filter due to NOLEAK!! Can't prove it but it makes sense. Read on.

A little digression: We've all seen reasons for using an additive in the engine oil. These additives supposedly reduce engine wear and increase fuel efficiency. Do these products do any good? Probably not much. Do they do any harm. Sometimes!

Utah University's experimental station found after treatment with a PTFE additive that the test engine's friction was reduced by 13.1 percent and the output horsepower increased from about 3%. The fuel economy improved as well.

Unfortunately, the same tests concluded that "There was a pressure drop across the oil filter resulting from possible clogging of small passageways". Oil analysis showed that iron contamination doubled after the treatment, indicating that engine wear actually increased!

In another test, a major oil company deformulated one of the PTFE-containing products. Physical and chemical analysis was done to determine the properties of this product. Performing a wear test, however, scientists found results to be only average, so the "built-in" added protection was not there.

The product was then monitored in actual engine use and during normal oil changes. After the oil was drained, the filter contained 50 percent of the PTFE. It is the function of an oil filter to remove suspended solids, so the oil filter did do its job by collecting as much of the PTFE as possible.

At the end of the test, one of the problems noted was a clogged oil filter and subsequent decreased oil pressure throughout the engine. Engine parts were evaluated, and no "plating out" on the metal surface was detected. In other words, product in, product out--with very little effect on the engine performance. The only effect this aftermarket product had was to dilute the API-licensed oil.

All of this is to make my point: I lost some oil pressure and that caused the 'sticky' lifter. Lack of oil to the lifter says that the lifter was not able to maintain sufficient pressure within the body because oil passage was plugged by some sort of debris, sludge or other foreign object. Also this problem could have been a 'hardware' problem such as a defective oil pump, defective check valve inside the oil pump or a combination of all bearing oil clearances in an engine. But in my case, I don't think so.

Since it was present at all speeds, some of many possibilities include: dirt or grit that gets trapped in between the lifter body and the plunger, lifters that get stuck with varnish or sludge deposits, badly worn lifters, bent pushrods, worn or scored rocker arms, rocker arm shafts or pushrods, scored and pitted lifter faces and camshaft lobes. Or just insufficient amounts of oil getting to the lifters, rocker arms or push rods.

The fix: Added a can of a popular engine degreaser. Ran it for 1/2 hour and drained the oil. Replaced the filter and added my usual 20-50 Valvoline. At startup, it was still there but greatly reduced. Road tested it at normal speeds (below 70mph) for about 10 minutes and it was gone. That was three days ago. The oil pressure now is normal: after warm-up, it goes full scale at 1000 - 1200 RPMs.

NOLEAK says it doesn't clog passages. So does Slick50 and other popular additives. But it has been proven that they do! In my case, I firmly believe that was the cause but I can't prove any of this. It certainly makes sense.

Appreciate any comments.

loubapache · #20 03-25-2002, 01:00 PM

Jim:

I ran a bottle of Noleak and now the coolant is clean on the 91 300E.

Now I am wondering what caused the small oil drops in the first place.

You and I both added Redline's water wetter in the car and both of us saw some oil drops in the coolant. Strange.

Anyway mine has no oil drops now and oil presure is normal. It is about due for an oil change (in about 400 miles).

JimF · #21 03-25-2002, 05:35 PM

Bo,

Although I only had about 3000 miles on my engine oil, it was over eight (8) months old with about 50% of 'severe' driving on it. Also I put in almost 2 cans of NOLEAK.

My car has never done anything like that before, and since it stopped "ticking" immediately after changing the oil and the filter, it surely points to being at least, partially plugged filter. If it were mechanical, it's logical to assume that it would have persisted.
Note the ticking turned out to be bad OIL TUBES! Check this thread:.
Tick, tick fixed tnx to Donnie!

Don't think that there's any correlation between the oil drops and Water Wetter but can't prove that either. There's no OIL in WW, so it shouldn't produce oil drops in the antifreeze/water.

Also your leak (if it was a leak) is now fixed. I would recommend that you not leave it in your system too much longer; IE flush and change the oil and filter.

loubapache · #22 03-25-2002, 05:44 PM

<<
Don't think that there's any correlation between the oil drops and Water Wetter but can't prove that either. There's no OIL in WW, so it shouldn't produce oil drops in the antifreeze/water.
>>
Maybe WW striped all the oil residues in the system and pushed them out to the top.

<<
Also your leak (if it was a leak) is now fixed. I would recommend that you not leave it in your system too much longer; IE flush and change the oil and filter.
>>
Yes, in about another two weeks. We do ot put many miles on that car anymore (after we get the diesel). It has about 2500 miles in about 6 months now.

Mine was under-dozed and I belive yours was a bit over-dozed.

loubapache · #23 04-20-2002, 08:06 PM

Jim:

Two weeks after an oil change (not using No Leak this time), I saw some small oils droplets in the coolant again today.

Hmmm, maybe No Leak is something that works.

joe p · #24 04-21-2002, 12:57 PM

119 heads, I pull the mill and do these on the bench. Not a bad job but, time consuming. I'd do the chain and rails while I was at it. The 119 is kinda funny to time but, pretty straight up.

I'd be inclined to send the heads out anyway as the AIR pump passages are suspect. (this is the only reason I've pulled these heads for) Maybe this is a southeast thing. Do the cam oilers and vent lines at the same time. Not to mention a waterpump.

I've seen 102's, 103's and a few 104's mix oil in the coolant but this is the first 119 I've head of doing it.

Joe

loubapache · #25 04-21-2002, 02:44 PM

joe p:

Thanks for chiming in with your experience.

<<
I've seen 102's, 103's and a few 104's mix oil in the coolant
>>
Do these all need head gasket replacements?

Like, Jim, my 300E has a few oil droplets floating after a couple of weeks. The car does not suffer any ill-symptoms now. It idles smooth, does not lose any coolant, does not over-heat, and the engine has lots of silk-smooth power. Should I watch it or go ahead with the head gasket replacement. I just used another bottle of No Leak. If that stops it, I might have to use it in every oil change until it blows up.

Also does "head gasket set" include the timing cover gaskets? It has the head gasket, valve cover gasket, intake and exhaust manifold gaskets, right?

Thanks.

joe p · #26 04-21-2002, 09:25 PM

Odds are the head gasket is failing. Me, I'd do the head and depending on milage I'd do guides as well. I saw a 103 with only 72k on it that had trashed guides. (90 300se)

Head sets include the front cover seal and the cam seal on the 103 however the cover is sealed to the head with silicone. There is almost a art to getting the seal between the cover, I set the sela in the lower cover with a dab of silicone at the corners, place a old microfiche over it and slide the upper into place.

BTW, the exhaust and intake gaskets are there too but, if you only replace the gasket, leave the exhaust on it. Just loosen the intake and move it away from the head with a prybar, gently. Make sure you find both down pins after you get the head off.

DONT FORGET THE PIN IN THE UPPER RAIL! Located on the head near the waterpump, behind the upper cover.

Joe

loubapache · #27 04-21-2002, 09:30 PM

Thanks again, joe p. The car (91 300E) just turned 100kmi two months ago.

I will not tackle the head gasket myself but I am going to wait a bit to keep watching it.

Thanks again.

Stan Pittman · #28 04-21-2002, 11:51 PM

Don't forget about the wiring harness. Anything more than 80,000 miles will need a new wiring harness if you touch it.

joe p · #29 04-22-2002, 04:58 PM

the 103 harness is generally not a issue. 104's are another ballgame entirely.

Joe

JimF · #30 02-06-2003, 05:14 PM

My initial post was 9/1/01 and it's now 2/6/03, so the leak, if it was a leak, is no more!

My tech never believed it was a head gasket leak, he thought it was a by-product of the anti-freeze, so I've been watching it all this time.

If it were 'oil', then you would expect to see it accumulate on the walls of the overflow tank, but there's none there. There's no water in the oil also, so there's nothing to do.

I've flushed the car about 3-4 months ago when I changed the tstat (was partially stuck open, so the car took a longer time to warmup), and since then it's been ok!

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