103 Stalling and not starting when warm...
 

It will not start until cold and then you repeat the cycle again. This happened to me while on the highway. No warning. It just died. I had to way until the car cool down. Luckely, it was a cool night so made it home. I did not noticed a faint SRS light going on and off. However, my A/C blower was also making a sound (I changed the brushes since then and no more blower sounds.) After that day, car continues to function great when is it cold but, as soon as it warms up. It starts acting up. The last time this happened. I crove the car for about 20 minutes with no problems. I went to the store for about 20 minutes. When I came back, I started the car and it run poorly like if it was missing a cylinder or two. The symptoms where worse when I tried to accelerate. I barely made it home (less tan 10 minutes away) going about 10 miles per hour. When I got home I disconnected the electrical connections (one by one) to the EHA, ICV, water temp sensor, check all the fuses, removed and reinstalled the OVP, Fuel Pump Relay. I tried to start the car again after each item was removed. The car would not start. All the instrument lights were on. One thing I did not notice before is there was a clicking noise behind the instrument cluster when I tried to start the vehicle (Hall-effect speed sensor?). That was about a week ago. Today I started the car on the first try. Running fine while cold. While researching, I know it could be a number of things like OVP, Fuel Pump Relay, Crank Position Sensor, coil, etc.
By the way, I tried a different FPR with no improvement in the problem, I suspect this is electrical...Can the Hall Effect speed sensor stall a car...?
What gives...?

i had this same exact problem, it was the crankshaft position sensor in the rear. find my thread if you need more information

Did you test the CPS...
 

or just replaced the part.?
How do you test the part...?

Here's some test results for our W201's just for reference.

http://www.benzworld.org/forums/w201-190e-d-class/1419951-crank-sensor-test.html

According to that link...
 

my CPS is within specs while cold. However, the car started fine this morning and now it will not start. I did disconnect a few more things before I try starting it again. I double check and now, when I disconnect the water temperature sensor (WTS) wires, in the back of the engine, it will start but, it will die after a couple of seconds. When I reconnect the WTS, the car will not start. I think we are getting somewhere here. I now need to test the WTS and see...I hope it is not a separate issue...

On ours I replaced the CPS, and both temp sensors, and its general operation improved greatly.

Hall Sensor, Crank Sensor....
 

Hi J.HIDALGO,

Hummm, Stalling issue...?

The one who will be able to tell you change this part and your trouble will be gone in the world of Sudden Stalling Syndrome (SSS), isn't born yet.

The part who might stall your car are to numerous, from a defect alternator to a fuel pump and all the parts in between, it's almost a bumper to bumper situation.

Symptom might look the same sometime, with different issue.

On a more positive note, with dedication and procedure we can isolate and find those Gremlins causing SSS.

Do not start throwing parts at diagnostic, unless you're lucky, this will get you no where.

The first step in Sudden Stalling Syndrome world is to be able to read the diagnostic socket MB give you, it take me three years to figure that. Well, I'm slow..... :D

View this Diagnostic Socket as windows to see how your car feel, your car talk to you by those Windows.

The tools you need are not expensive and will open the windows.

You need to be able to read duty-cycle from the X/11 socket, you also need to be able to to read a pulse code reader for the X11/4 socket. All depend year and model of your car you will find the spec. in your shop manual. You also need basic knowlege in mechanic.

You will find plenty of help here if you can come up with info from those windows.

Other than that find a good shop, you trust and let them do the work, but please ask question.... Don't let him throw parts at Diagnostic.

To answer your question:

Yeap, you bet, MB get a Technical Bulletin Service (TBS) out in 1997 about this fact. the TBS number is DDAF07_32-U-6701A, on this TBS, OVP, HES, and EHA, was pointed out as a source for SSS.

The only problem the symptom don't fits...

"Engine Stumbles or cuts-out when coming to a stop, engine idle surges intermittenly"

You see what I mean??

Max

Fuel pressure
 

Did you check fuel pressure and for leaks in the fuel system?

Recently solved a stalling problem in the 1991 190E 2.6 by checking fuel pressure and saw that the pressure wouldnt hold and sure enough it was leaking @ the fuel pumps.

As mentioned above...
 

Things just got worse. Now I have a start and die after only about 5 seconds. I wonder if both situations are related...I have not checked the fuel pressure but, if there was a fuel leak...why would it die in the the middle of the highway and would not start until the engine cools down?

I did notice today...
 

the wire from the distributor to the coil has some marks on it...I will check tomorrow...

You have a different problem then. Sounds liek it stalls when you accelerate or decelerate. I would check the componets of the cise to make sure its not something there.

I would check fuel pressure though only takes like 5 minutes. To answer your question if you have a fuel leak it would die because the fuel pumps cant keep up and fuel pumps would try to build up pressure hence not starting right away.

Hi there,

I suggest you;
Test the distributor cap With the meter set to measure OHM's (resistance) measure the resistance from each terminal one at a time with one probe in the centre of a terminal at the outside - and the other probe on the same terminal inside the cap. RESISTANCE SHOULD BE: 700 to 1300 OHM's

Test the rotor at the middle (where is contacts the centre cap terminal) to the outer peak. RESISTANCE SHOULD BE: 700 to 1300 OHM's

Test ignition cables and the spark plug connectors RESISTANCE AGAIN SHOULD BE: 700 to 1300 OHM's

Also your suspect main cable from the coil to dist cap.

Replace any component outside these specs.

Good luck,
Acky

I checked the suggested parts...
 

and all of them are within limits. However, inspecting the coil I noticed a faint white spot behind the coil's metal bracket. Can you test the coil with a multimeter?

I would start by actually replacing the OVP if all the instrument lights are on. Sometimes the fuses are absolutely fine, but the unit itself is shot. If it has never been replaced before in its life, then it probably time considering your stalling. The other possible culprit would be the voltage regulator attached to the alternator. These two, to my knowledge, would be the only items to cause illumination in the cluster. Start with the OVP then move to the voltage regulator.

I had the same stalling problem on my TE until I replaced the OVP. I also checked the fuses on it and it would just die randomly on me while driving.

Sounds like you are having some of the similar problems that I had. I have a 91 300E. Check out my thread "Owner of a 91 300E looking for a cliff"

I replaced several things all of which temporarily helped but i now suspect they just needed to be replaced as maintenance.
I replaced...

• Spark Plugs
• Spark Plug Wires
• Distributor Cap
• Fuel Filter
• Fuel Pumps

Finally the Pumps are what did the trick, Turns out the primary was overheating then killing. once the car cooled for bit it would start right back up only to do it again.
*I replaced the fuel filter twice, Once a couple hundred miles before a, once during the pump replacement.

Hope it helps.

My vehicle only has ONE pump.
 

It was replaced once a while back. It could be the problem. I just have to find the time to test it. Hopefully this weekend.

Thanks!

nmake sure its not leaking, which a fuel pressure test will show

J.Hidalgo: My guess is the CPS---same thing happened to me. This is my experience from an earlier post:

I am located in Jacksonville and can lend you a used good coil and EZL unit to try but my bet is still the CPS. Mark

Thanks Mark,
 

I guess I will have to get a CPS. So far, everything I measured is within limits...including the CPS. I even got an used coil from a junk yard. No luck!
Right now, I can hear the fuel pumps powering up, the car will star but, it will die within 5 seconds like if the engine was choking.
Did you access the CPS from the bottom and did you have to remove the oil filter?

I accessed the bolt from the top but you do have to get underneath to determine where the cable is attached to the intake manifold and release the cable from these clips. I believe I did remove the oil filter to be able to see the attachment bolt but you can determine that as you go. A very bright flashlight will help you locate the bolt. IIRC it takes a 5mm allen socket, universal joint with a very long extension. Be sure to gunk the area well before removal---very greasy---and to clean out the allen head so you don't strip the the head and create a real nightmare:eek: Let us know how it goes. Mark

Mark,
 

I will probably try it. What part of Jax are you in...? I am in Orange park...

I am on the Westside---Lake Shore Blvd. Mark

Mark,
 

PM sent.

Got it. Mark

The coolant temp sensor is a likely candidate as well, especially since the symptoms changed when you disconnected it. In a thread here somewhere, I posted the temperature/resistance curve chart. You can see if your coolant temp sensor is out of spec with an ohmmeter and this chart.

A really off temp sensor will make the car die, ask me how I know.....



-tp

I already ordered the CPS.
 

The sensor may be next...

Good news and bad news...
 

The good news, I replaced the CPS succesfully.
The bad news, I did not fix the problem.
Replacing the CPS is not that bad. Access to the 5 mm allen bolt is tight and hard to reach but, I did it from the top without removing the oil filter. For reference, you can shine a flashlight (from the drivers side) down between the oil filter and the fire wall and you should be able to see the allen bolt. It is located below and to the right of the oil filter. The old CPS a resistance of
.849 k and the new one .829 k. Both well within specs. However, the old one had a very small piece of insulation missing between the sensor side and the wire. I took some pictures and I will post in the future.
I also measured the resistance between the two pins of the coolant temperature sensor: 4.67k at 62 F or 14 C
It starts all the time but, it dies right away.

What do you guys think...?

I'm not sure it's your entire problem, but that reading is out of spec. At 14 degrees Celsius, your reading should be right around 3K.

4.7K corresponds to roughly 5 degrees C. Your car thinks the engine is colder than it actually is..... This would in theory lead to a rich condition.

Are you checking the right sensor? There should be TWO elements in your temp sensor if you are checking the right one. The single element temp sensor is for your temp gauge ONLY. The dual element sensor is the one that matters as far as how your engine runs. You need to check the value of both elements, and they both need to be in spec.

Even if it's not what's killing your car, an out of spec temp sensor will cause havoc with your MPG and performance.

-tp

Here's the thread where I posted the chart.....

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/tech-help/239276-hard-start-when-warm.html


-tp

I am sure it is the right sensor...
 

I am measuring the resistance between the two elements. A picture of the sensor is attached.

I also suspect two diffferent problems...Hopefully, the CPS resolved one of the problems. Now, if I could only start the car...

Your car being an '86 is a very early one....so it might or might not have a temp sensor at the rear of the engine that looks like this:

http://img.eautopartscatalog.com/hir...300&height=300

And has a big plug connected to it. Its a dual temp sensor. Tested in a cris-cross pattern. Each pin across from the other is the one to test with, not the ones next to each other.

It is the green one...
 

I posted above. It only has two pin or connectors so I ammeasuring resistance between the two.

IT IS ALIVE!!!!!!
 

I got in touch with Mark, one of the local MB owner, he let me borrow a coolant temperature sensor, an EZL and an ignition coil to trouble shoot.
I tried the sensor with no changes. Before I disconnected more cables to replace the EZL, I followed his advice and bought some starting fluid and tried to start the vehicle. The vehicle started and died as usual. I tried it a couple of more times and on the third time, the car did start and, even though it died...it lasted a few more seconds before it died. Based on that fact, I reviewed my notes to see what I had done in the past two months to the car that had to do with fuel. I then remember changing the EHA with a used one I had in my spare parts. I keep the old EHA...just in case. I changed the EHA and the car started right away and keep on running. I adjusted the duty cycle to around 55% and I drove around the neighborhood with no ill effects. Like I said before, I think I had two different problems and I hope between the EHA and the new CPS, both problems go away.
I know the EHA is part of the ignition/fuel regulating system but, preventing the car from starting...? Has anybody experienced this before...?

That’s great!
 

The EHA controls the fuel mixture by regulating the pressure differential between the upper and lower chambers of the fuel distributor. For emission reasons, it also turns off the fuel supply entirely when you lift your foot off of the gas at say 2000 + rpm and above and coast down to approx 1200 rpm where it will turn the fuel supply back on (rpm numbers are approximate and were changed during production). It appears that the CPS was your initial problem and the defective EHA valve you installed trying to cure the initial problem became your second problem. Mark

Thanks Mark!
 

Hopefully, it will not die again. I sent you a PM.