Improving steering feel and response on a W210?
 

Guys,

I've had the car for close to two years now and it has never felt quite "right" on the interstate. The car has a tendency to do what I would describe as "turning in" with steering inputs.

When the wheel is turned, there is an initial response followed by a markedly sharper directional change a few ms later when the weight of the car shifts. This despite holding the wheel steady. Sometimes the effect is pronounced enough that I have to actually release some pressure on the wheel to hold the line.

On long sweeping turns at higher speeds, the car actually wallows around the turn as if it were at the point of losing tire grip when in reality, it is far below that threshold. It inspires no confidence which is a shame for a car of this level of refinement. My old Ford Ranger pickup actually felt better on turns and could hold a line much more comfortably.

So, here is what I have so far:

Tires are new.
Shocks are new Bielstein Sports.
Tire pressure is within spec.

I've searched and read about other's experiences here and this is what I'm investigating:

Control arms/bushings.
4 wheel alignment.
Worn tie rod ends/ball joints.

Any other areas I should be looking at? Are there any alignment specs that could be modified to reduce this turn-in tendency? More toe out?

Thanks for your ideas.

I've never had the pleasure of riding or driving a w210, but what you're explaining doesn't sound right. You definitely need to check all the suspension components and make sure nothing is worn or broken; though I'd think you'd hear and physically feel broken or worn ball joints, tie-rods, control-arms, bushgings, etc.

I can say that my w123 may wallow in sweepers, a little bit, but once the suspension is "seated", it'll carve through the turn with confidence. A w210 shouldn't have any of that going on...

I would do the alignment first; this should include a look at the front end pieces...

I just got back from the mall driving the '06 Golf and it's rock solid compared to the E300's "dancing" ways... Of course, it has 1/3 the miles but still... Even my beat up Corvette is more stable.

Have you checked your Stabilizer/Sway Bar Link bushing, also you might as well invest in some wider tires...

I'll check those when I get into it. I already have pretty wide tires - 225/55/16. It's not a tire adhesion problem. All of the instability happens at reasonable speeds.

I too suffer from these issues. I dont know if I would explain it the same way but I think we speak of similiar problems. When I drive on the interstate it seems like the car is all over the place. This isnt a small issue as I have never experienced it in another car. Not even my first car (1969 vw bus). What is the deal. New tires don't help. I have made sure of everything in my frontbeing tight. I do notice a noise in the frint end that sounds like something is loose. Do you notice this also? It is almost like a rattling noise when I hit bumps on the interstate or the normal (40 mph) road. Maybe if we work together we can find a solution.

Good Luck

I would surmise it needing new ball joints. How many miles are on your car's?

spring perch?

Wandering
 

This was a common complaint on the earliest 210s. On the other hand, this might also be caused by perished rubber bushings in the rear control arms, not exactly unheard of.

Rack and pinion steering has two primary advantages, both fall to the manufacturer - it's cheap, and you get to sell lots of replacement units.

Rack &
 

I think the 210 was Mb's first R&P car and was not without fault but that was taken care of later. It's called the customer financed test program.

As far as condemning rack and pinion steering, you are off base. I think most cars (maybe all) these days have R&P steering and they are quite reliable. Plenty of MB recirculating ball boxes have failed and how many posts have we seen about loose steering which was likely an adjustment problem. I have owned two R&P MBs now and find the steering to be superior in feel to all the old MB recirculating ball MBs I've owned.

And there is another little German car builder across town from MB that went to R&P steering 45 years ago and it seems to have worked out quite well.

Porsche.

140k here. Ball joints? I would think there would be some slop while I inspected them. Maybe I am checking the ball joints wrong. How do you suggest inspecting the ball joints? I have gone under my car to find this problem so many times but have never seen anything that needs to be replaced. Thanks for the help. I dont mean to steal the this thread but I think the owner of the thread and I have the same problem.

I've got the same wandering, skittish feeling when driving on grooved concrete pavement or setting the car into a turn at freeway speeds. Cross winds aren't pleasant either. I go back and forth with whether or not it originates from front or rear.....

At 180-190k I did shocks, sway bar links and bushings which helped a bit. At~200k I had inner tie rods with slop replaced and shortly afterwards did the LCA bushings. Am at 262 now and is def not geting better.

I have no lateral clicking movement in my ball joints but do have some vertical play so I guess they are next.

Thanks. I'll be visiting all these areas in the near future. I've been reading quite a bit on alignments and apparently, more positive caster will improve this tendency we're experiencing. In other words, reduce the tendency to wander...

OK, an update: So far I've fixed the loud 'clunking' when going over speed bumps. Seems that the new rubber bushings supplied with the Bilsteins is somewhat more compliant than the OEM. This allows the large flange washer on the top mount of the shock to actually come in contact with the metal cup that supports the bottom of the bushing during more aggressive damping such as going over speed bumps.

I reduced the washer size down to 1 1/2" and this eliminated all of the routine clunking that I was experiencing during my daily commutes. I still can make it clunk but it takes a fairly abusive run over a bump which I would normally only do accidentally.

Next up is the wheel bearings. After jacking up the car, I found that I could actually wiggle the tires up and down by hand. I'll take this opportunity to inspect and re-pack them as well.

You get it figured out Evan?

I ended up replacing my entire front end, upper and lower control arms, balljoints, shocks, sway bar links and bushing a while before. Rides well.

Although, I prefer the steering feel of my '97 to the '99. That parametric steering or whatever on 98/99 and up doesn't feel right to me.

Add a little toe......
 

The steering problem mentioned in the first posting on this thread sounds like the car is set up with insufficient toe-in:

Initial turn-in appears to be fine (it is nice to have the car react quickly to initial steering input) but then the car, on its own, turns-in more. That's not nice, and is probably due to inherent suspension rubber/bushing compliance under steering stress allowing the front tires to increase the "turn-in". This is a characteristic of insufficient toe-in.

Toe-in compensates for this and also contributes to straight line directional stability.

A race car is often set up with zero or slight toe-out. The target being aggressive turn-in and quick steering input in competition. The same car will be disconcerting to drive at speed: it will want to dart around and requires constant little steering inputs to keep it in a straight line but this is an acceptable race trade off.

If your suspension bushes are not completely shot take it to an alignment shop and have them check the toe and caster. Incorrect toe-in may be the cause. It is also worth checking caster as it too contributes to directional stability.

But first do your wheel bearings...........

Regards,
bobf

Sorry to put in an obvious.
What tyres do you have on.

A W140 I once owned had the same steering vagueness as you describe. I had the car wheel aligned a couple of times, wheels balanced etc etc.
Changed to a different tyre set - problem eliminated. Car originally had tyres not on the MB recommended list. I changed to a recommended brand, could not believe the difference.

My two cents.

I would not increase toe in over stock. I would use about one sixteenth of toe in.

I would not go wider on the tires. I would go with stock tires if the turn in sensitivity is a problem for you.

More caster should help this tendency. Mercedes went with an alignment from the factory for a few years that emphasized initial turn it over highway stability. It was imho to make the car drive more like a lexus. It also was imho a mistake. MOst mercedes use about nine degrees of caster which is race car like and contributes to straight line stability and emphasizes good response in a corner.

When I got my new 01 Ewagon I did not like the high speed handling, they checked the alignment and replaced right and left caster and camber pins under warranty. It felt much better.

I've noticed this delay effect on our wagon: your turn the steeeing wheel to follow the curvature of the highway and the car doesn't respond right away...there's a slight lag. I've noticed it's somewhat related to the tire and probably sidewall construction. Our car was fitted with the Continentals from the factory. They did not exhibit this tendancy at all. Some tires that have been fitted since were fine, some have not been so good.

Only the dealer handles alignments. I recently fitted new shocks to the front, that eliminated the highway "swaying" effect.

My diesel is fitted with the 18" AMG wheels/tires. That is flawless on the highway concerning tracking + steering + turn in.

I noticed weird steering on my 99 E300, it seemed unstable. The best steering car I had was the W124 400E.