'90 300E Ignition tumbler replace - HELP !
 

OK, so I searched and read all the stuff on here on the trials and tribulations of doing this. I bought myself a 1.5mm dia bicycle spoke and made up a tool. Keep in mind I have my eye and a dremmel to make the "important" angle of 60 deg on this thing, so I do the best I can.

I could not get both sides to go in at the same time, so I believe my width was a little off. I cut the tool into 2 "L" shaped tools and the angles are indicated by the "L", so I know how they are oriented at any time. Then I got both sides to go all the way in fairly easily.

According to all the stuff I read, the tool should go in about 1.2" to engage the dogs that release the black cylinder, and mine appear to be going in about 1.4" when it seems to bottom out. This is where the progress stops though. No matter what I do, how much I jiggle the black cylinder or the key halves, I can not get even a HINT of the black cylinder breaking loose. I have spent HOURS and HOURS with this thing. Can anyone tell me what, if anything, I might be doing wrong?

I'm debating whether to buy the Mercedes tool from ZDMAC tonight, or just leave it torn apart and drive it, and the new tumbler, to the MB dealer and tell them to replace the tumbler and charge me for it.

what the heck are you talking about?

You turn the key to position 1, insert the wire tool, push the prongs in, the tumbler should pop a little, then you pull the key to pull the tumbler out.

The key is in position 1. The tool inserts about 1.4" deep, so I know it has gone in well past the spring for the tumbler. The tumbler doesn't "pop" or anything, and you aren't pulling anything out of there by the key. I tried that - nothing moves.

Looking at the new tumbler and black security cylinder (or cover if you like) that I have, the tumbler can not be pulled out through the small end of the security cylinder. The black security cylinder has to come off in order to get the tumbler out. Both have to come off.

Maybe it is possible your spring has broken? Based on what you have said, it should have popped out by now. Have you tried just pushing a little harder just in case it is hitting the spring instead of going over it?

The two wires need to be pushed down at the same time with one hand and then the other hand removes the tumbler by pulling the key.

loubapache, does the tool engage through the two dogs (ie...protrude through and past them) or only to them ?

My tool is going in about 1.4" deep before it seems to bottom out. I am seeing all kinds of numbers thrown around in posts, anything from 1 1/4" to 1 1/2" deep as being where the dogs are located.

Am I understanding correctly that you have to keep pressure on the tool at the same time you pull on the tumbler/security cover ?


Ps2cho....you don't understand, the 300E is different. In the 300E, that spring on the tumbler holds neither the tumbler nor the black cover in place. On this model, the black security cover must be removed in order to remove the tumbler (they come out together). The spring on the tumbler has nothing to do with that.

Through and further in until it pops. I forgot the depth but you insert the tool until it bottoms out then push further in.

Are you talking about the flat cover or the round black cover. The flat cover needs to be removed first but the round black thing came out with the tumbler, IIRC.

I did this a long time ago for my 1991 300E and I no longer have the car but still have the tool I made from fence wire and the old tumbler so I took a picture of the tool.

Security cover = the black round cover that sits over the tumbler. It is hardened steel.

I think perhaps my tool is either a) not going through the dogs, or more likely, is slightly too small diameter and is not engaging the dogs enough (or at all). I made it out of a .061" bicycle spoke, which is about 1.5 mm. Looking at your pic up there, it looks like your fence wire tool is closer to 2 mm. (.078")

update: Now I think so even more. I just read on here where a guy tried using 14 ga solid wire and was not successful until he switched to 12 ga. wire. Well 12 Ga wire is about .080" - close to 2 mm, where 14 ga is about .068" - closer to my .061" tool.

There you have it......Apparently, my tool is too small :bigcry:

Story of my life...... :laugh4:

I don't think you understand how it works...

The mechanism is exactly the same on all w124's. The cover comes out with the tumbler, which is why you are unlocking the cover, not the tumbler. The cover holds the tumbler against the back of the cylinder, which locks it in place. You cannot remove the tumbler, like you said, without removing the cover. The spring that you access THROUGH the tumbler is to unlock the black anti-theft cover. Once that is removed, the tumbler comes out WITH the cover in your hand.

If your tool is too small, it won't be engaging the spring. My coathanger that I am using is 2mm thick -- I just measured it. I hope this helps too.

You will see what I mean once you see the mechanism from the inside.

Andy_M: Ps2cho is right. Your tool could be the problem, especially you have it in two pieces.

Sorry ps2cho, I thought you were talking about the black spring on the tumbler.

Yes, I think that the tool I made is too small diameter. 2 mm = .0787" and the bicycle spoke I used is .061", that's almost .020" difference. Remember the guy I mentioned who tried using 14 ga solid wire and was not successful until he switched to 12 ga. wire ? Well that's only .012" difference in diameter, and the 12 Ga is .080".

I ordered the Mercedes ignition pick tool set a couple of days ago from ZDMAC in Florida. I'm in NJ, so it should be here today. I'll keep you posted.

Giving up
 

OK, I got a WHITE coat hanger last night. I even measured the diameter with a micrometer, it was .078, or 1.98 mm. I made a tool and went at it.

No dice. Can not get both sides inserted with a 2 mm diameter tool. No way. Tried for hours.

Excellent MB indi right down the road from my house. Hell, he's even German as can be. He says "Ya, can be tricky, bring her down..we fix you up." Car is going to him this afternoon. I'm done.

I work on my Porsche, my son's 300ZX (now THERE is a real ***** to work on...) and the W124. First time any of them has beat me like this........:mad:

5 min job.......:laughing:

tumbler
 

I've done five tumblers in two 201 cars and three 124 cars in my life. The last one in my 91 300TE was indeed a five minute job with a bent white coat hanger with filed down ends.

It looks to me like you were doing it the right way- I'm curious to know how your german indie fixes it.

Update
 

Well, Karl (my German indi mechanic with 38 yrs of MB experience) got it !!

.........after 2 hours of cutting with a pneumatic pannel cutter that is. Turns out I wasn't doing it wrong..it was just being a B*#&%.....:)

ds190 - I have no doubt that it should be a 5 min job....I was more laughing at that phrase because I already had that many HOURS invested. Turns out 2 more (hours) were needed though........:)

To top it all off.....we get it out and start putting it back together with the new tumbler and cover, and find that the cover that they sent me was the wrong one - they sent me the smaller one. :rolleyes6:

You can't make this stuff up...........


Thanks to everyone who tried to help out. Very much appreciated. :thumbup1: