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  #46  
Old 03-07-2002, 04:48 PM
dlswnfrd
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The Best Miles 125/day

Brother of The Benz, 300EE320
Your wifes car will probable outlast the other type that is only driven to the market and back.
I would guess that you don't experience extensive crankcase contamination is because the engine is run long enough to vaporize those solvents that form in the motor oil.
They say that the real bad item is sulphor combined with water condensed in the cold engine.
I see nothing wrong with spinning on a new filter and using the motor oil in the crankcase considerring the driving that is being done.
Keep it up.
Happy Trails Beep Beep from The Spiderman in Houston!!!

P.S. Join the group of wierdos
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  #47  
Old 03-10-2002, 11:51 PM
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Greaser

I change the oil everytime the oil in my hair gets to critical
mass, then I take a shower!

See, mr. natural conserves water and dinosaur fossils!!
I don't contribute much to smog air pollution and global warming..........
but stay down wind of me BUCKY !!
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1979 300D 199 K miles
1995 C280 95 K miles
1992 Cadillac Eldorado Touring Coupe 57K miles
********************
1979 240D 140Kmiles (bought for parents) *SOLD.
SAN FRANCISCO/(*San Diego)
1989 300SE 148 K miles *SOLD
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  #48  
Old 03-11-2002, 12:25 PM
LightMan's Avatar
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You're all wasting your money

What are you guys, all over the age of 50?? Oils have come so far recently its amazing. First of all, if you're so stuck on the old methods of doing things(no offense) enough to still be using dino oil, dont bother reading further, continue to throw away your money and feel safe about your engine.
If you want to do whats absolutely best for your benz, like most of the ppl on these forums, you'll use a full(not a blend or fake synthetic like castrol syntec) synthetic. These oils protect better, and dont make the sludge/deposits that conventional petroleum based oils make. Dino oil will form sludge and dirt -and reduce your engine's performance over time.
Secondly, you guys are just guessing at your oil drain intervals. This can only be correctly/safely acertained through oil analysis. The guys at Oil Analyzers can help you out, as well as other labs. The test is about $14 dollars and will give you a breakdown of the oil, on many different levels - (chemical content, tbn, soot %(key))...
Point in case, if you use the best oils made for a diesel engine - Mobil's Delvac 1, or Amsoil series 3000 Synthetic Heavy Duty Diesel Oil, you are able to use longer drain intervals(anywhere between 5-15k changes), while still remaining CLEANER and more protected than your dino oil - at 3k changes. This is achieved by better esters, soot suspension properties, and additive packages that break down less. The cost difference between conventional and premium synthetics is made up in the longer drain intervals and the superior protection/cleanliness.

If you are really looking to keep the oil clean and extend the life/durability of your car, look into installing a bypass oil filtration system - available through a few companies - amsoil(www.amsoil.com), gulf coast, oilguard, and comi industries are a few. Amsoil makes ready to install kits, but usually for more popular vehicles. Unfortunately I can't find one for my car, and am looking into an installation now, just delayed as I haven't found an oil sending unit adapter for the line to the bypass filter.

In short (this was a novel) use quality synthetic oil, and go for a longer interval than your dino oils. Your engine will be cleaner and last longer.
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  #49  
Old 03-11-2002, 10:06 PM
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Did you have to bring this thread back up to the top again? Did I?
Welcome back Donald "spiderman" Swinford, didn't even see you there

Kuan
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  #50  
Old 03-12-2002, 01:38 AM
David C Klasse's Avatar
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I just recently had my oil and filter changed... I went close to 8,000 miles this time, procrastination the last 2k miles.
Anyway, my mechanic said that the oil definitly needed to be changed, "It was time." ...as in the oil was plenty dirty.

In the crankcase was fully synthetic mobil 1 oil, 20w50 I believe. I consider my driving characteristics between "severe" and "normal" on an oil changing scale. I usually drive more than 15 miles per trip, always warming the oil/engine completely, thus every day burning the contaminants off the oil. But I also drive hard.... with many high revs, and a lot of 3,000 + rpm freeway driving.

This is in my 1995 C280 with 125k miles.... and tuned properly.
So what does this say?
I think that a nice balance between the "fanatical" and "extended" beliefs will work just fine for me; DEFINITLY less than 8,000 miles (my longest stretch yet).
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2006 E350 w/ 155k miles (Daily Driver)

Previous:
1993 300E 3.2L Sedan w/ close to about 300k miles
2003 E500 Brilliant Silver (Had 217k miles when totalled!)
1989 300E with 289,000 miles (had for <1 yr while in HI)
03 CLK 500 cabrio (Mom's)
2006 C230k (Dad's)
1999 S420 (Mom's/Dad's)
2000 C230k Sport sedans
2001 CLK320 Cabrio (Mom's)
1995 C280 My First Mercedes-Benz... (155k miles. EXCEPTIONAL AUTOMOBILE. Was Very hard to let go of!)
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  #51  
Old 03-12-2002, 04:11 AM
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Regardless of full synthetic or not, I change the oil on all cars about every 3K miles.

If I had at least a 20-minute commute (I don't), I'd extend it to 5K miles with dino, and 7.5K miles with synthetic, with a filter change and 1/2 qt. top-off at 3500 miles.

It's the real short drives that is killing my oil, because it rarely gets hot enough to boil-away the contaminants, it doesn't matter if I use a good diesel rated oil like Delvac 1300, Delvac 1, or Delo 400.

:-) neil
1988 360TE AMG
1993 500E
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  #52  
Old 03-12-2002, 01:09 PM
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speculation....

Most of the ppl replying to this post are speculative about whats happening with their oil. You can't know whats happening with your additives and contaminants unless you do a proper oil analysis. Whether a mechanic says it 'looks dirty' and whether the oil is analytically dirty (soot content, particle content, chemicals, TBN, etc) are two different things. For one - mechanics want to make money by changing your oil. Two - most mechanics are trained in the older school of thought, and are resistant to accepting the capabilities of the newer oils.Most likely despite your driving conditions -short trip or long trip-, engine to full temp or not, you're dumping out oil thats still fine to use. There is definitely something to be said about changing the oil filters midway through your drain interval, more so if you take lots of short trips, drive hard, use crappy fuel, etc. Do yourself a favor, spend the $14 bux, send off a few ounces of your oil in their ready made (no spilling) test kits, and find out for yourself exactly how your engine is running. Not only will it tell you how clean your oil is and how long it can go for, it will show indicators of many other conditions. For example - if a certain wear metal content or chemical content is high, you would be tipped off to bearing wear, or an air leak, etc. Its great for preventative maintenance and diagnosing probs before they wreck your whole engine. Aside from that it saves you money by letting you know your exact ideal oil change intervals. Below is a link to the site - kits can be purchased online thru the amsoil website - at least that's where I bought mine....good luck guys!

http://www.oaitesting.com/
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  #53  
Old 03-12-2002, 09:52 PM
David C Klasse's Avatar
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Of course... you do have a point... about the "look" of the oil opposed to it's lubricating properties; and with the mechanic's older information instillment. I suppose I might consider extending my oil changes somewhat (less than 8k miles no doubt), until otherwise informed, "legally."
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2006 E350 w/ 155k miles (Daily Driver)

Previous:
1993 300E 3.2L Sedan w/ close to about 300k miles
2003 E500 Brilliant Silver (Had 217k miles when totalled!)
1989 300E with 289,000 miles (had for <1 yr while in HI)
03 CLK 500 cabrio (Mom's)
2006 C230k (Dad's)
1999 S420 (Mom's/Dad's)
2000 C230k Sport sedans
2001 CLK320 Cabrio (Mom's)
1995 C280 My First Mercedes-Benz... (155k miles. EXCEPTIONAL AUTOMOBILE. Was Very hard to let go of!)
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  #54  
Old 03-13-2002, 08:09 AM
LarryBible
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David C. Klasse,

Worn out engines have greatly increased emissions, thus they are tough on the environment as well. Keep them from wearing out to save the air.

The world is full of compromises,
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  #55  
Old 03-13-2002, 02:02 PM
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I knew Larry Bible would finally jump in.
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Paul S.

2001 E430, Bourdeaux Red, Oyster interior.
79,200 miles.

1973 280SE 4.5, 170,000 miles. 568 Signal Red, Black MB Tex. "The Red Baron".
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  #56  
Old 03-15-2002, 11:56 PM
realneal
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Oil change myths and other folk-lore debunked

Well, I have just read 4 pages of opinions and conjecture about the lubricating properties of engine oil versus engine wear characteristics. I'm going to postulate that there are two primary factors concerning 'excessive' engine wear, the operating temperature while operating and the amount of sulphuric acid in the oil when the engine is off and cold. After I get your blood boiling over those topics, I will pontificate about several other visual indicators that mainly turn off the 'average' automobile affecionado, such as varnish and sludge, which sometimes is also referred to as 'dirt'.

TEMPERATURE
Oil is used to both lubricate and cool the moving parts of an engine, keeping friction, which causes wear, to a minimum.

Oil temperatures lower than the minimum viscosity value, even under no-load, low rpm conditions, can cause wear to increase by a factor of 8 to 10 times depending on the viscosity of the oil at the low extreme (the '10W' portion of the 10W-30 viscosity specification). Excessive wear on bearing surfaces will continue until the oil is heated to flow properly and provide the necessary oil film, or friction barrier. Do not confuse the oil temperature with the coolant temperature. An automobile engine's oil does not reach operating temperature until the vehicle has travelled an average of eight miles. The coolant temperature is reached within a mile or two because the cooling system thermostat stops the flow of coolant to the radiator until the coolant reaches the minimum temperature. Oil temperature thermostats are used only with aircraft piston engines, for obvious reasons (if it quits, you can't get out and walk).

Oil temperatures higher than the maximum viscosity value (the '30' portion of the 10W-30 viscosity specification) causes the oil's lubricating properties to break down which in turn allows friction surfaces to heat up past the temperature limits of the metal itself, causing severe failures such as piston seizure and bearing failure that may ruin the entire engine. In this case, the high temperature thins the oil excessively, decreasing the friction barrier and allowing the bearing surfaces to come in contact with each other.

Temperature factors seldom cause engine wear to the extent that enthusiasts cringe with embarrassment because of low-mileage overhauls. Unless a given enthusiast lives near a highway and cannot wait for the engine to warm up sufficiently before he blasts down the road at ninety miles per hour, he will normally be spared the humiliation.

SULPHURIC ACID, THE UN-ADDITIVE
Any respectable auto maintenance manual, like Chilton's, Motor Manual or that other one that I should remember the name of, will contain a section with photos dealing with the deadly substance (to piston engines, anyway), sulphuric acid. If you have not read about sulphuric acid, do so because you cannot consider yourself a REAL enthusiast without knowing what the number-one engine killer is. That would be akin to calling yourself a Christian, but having no knowledge of Satan.

Sulphuric acid is created in your engine oil pan (sump, if you insist on euro-speak) without your doing any more than driving the less-than eight miles per day to and from work each day. I will not repeat the factors that cause it's formation--look it up and spare me the effort of copying it into this thread. Take it from me--the previous thread's definition is factual unless you want to split a few hairs. Sulphuric acid mostly affects the metallic compound commonly known as 'babbit', that is, the very soft material used for engine bearings--main bearings, rod bearings, cam bushings, etc. These bearings, after a prolonged attack of sulphuric acid, look like they were decorated by an insane etcher. Instead of flat, smooth surfaces, the bearings look like an etch-a-sketch surface created by children. Because the bearing contact area has been reduced by as much as 40-50%, the bearings wear out much faster, requiring an early major engine overhaul.

Sulphuric acid does not go away on it's own--it will not evaporate--if the oil is not changed, the damage continues to occur. For this reason alone, vehicle manufactorers recommend the oil change every umpty-ump miles OR three months. The three months is to ensure that any sulphuric acid is eliminated at least every three months.

Several others in this thread have ventured to say 'old folks' are responsible for the myths concerning the frequency of oil changes versus engine wear. I'll counter that assertion with my opinion that most enthusiasts, except the most diligent (age notwithstanding) do not know what the hell they are talking about. To prove my point, search this thread for the term 'sulphuric acid'. If I recall correctly, there were, at the very most, two occurrances (at least one, though). Then, to really prove that you want to learn about this particular subject, do an Internet search on the same term and any of the keywords from this thread that tickle your fancy, such as 'motor oil' (NOTE: I do not think 'dino oil' will get you any results--by the way, who coined that trite term? Dawn Rainforest? While you are at it, see if any oil companies are dumb enough to posit that their super-duper 100% extra-virgin synthetic oil will prevent the formation of sulphuric acid. If you spot any, expect them to follow up with an announcement that their new handy-dandy in-the-privacy-of-your-driveway invention will rejuvenate your piston rings and replace the babbit in your engine bearings by adding their brand of 'motor honey' to your oil and molybdenum pills to your gas tank. With their super additives, spark plugs that fire in oil, a propeller under your carburetor and an ionizer on your gas line, you will be ready to challenge the Challenger to a race to space.

THE INFAMOUS CHECKER CAB EXPERIMENT
People continue to misconstrue the facts concerning this experiment. The cabs did NOT travel less than eight miles, shut down, cool off, drive eight miles, etc. They ran, albeit mostly at idle, at least 18 hours per day BUT THEY DID NOT COOL OFF--HENCE THEY EXPERIENCED NO 'EXCESSIVE WEAR'. Neither do city busses, tractor-trailer rigs, police cars, UPS trucks or on-the-road salesmen's cars. This is not rocket-science here.

Another note on temperature and oil viscosity--Here in the Southwest U.S., the weather gets hot--really hot. Despite this fact, the manufacturers up in Detroit insist that 10W-30 oil is fine for summer-time driving, Possibly so up north, but down here when the asphalt road temperatures reach 130+ degrees and you are tooling along at 80+ miles per hour with your air conditioner blasting, the highway speeds will wreak havoc with your engine oil. Because the temperature rarely drops below freezing in winter and stays above 95 degrees in our six-month long summer season, I use 20W-50 oil exclusively. Especially when the temperature is less than 50 degrees, I try to loaf along if possible before getting on the highway, to let my engine oil at least get warm. If you pay attention to your engine, you can tell when it gets warm and is ready to go.

VARNISH AND SLUDGE
Varnish is mainly an indication of a neglectful owner. I think of it as hard sludge. I may be wrong, but the only harm I have seen from varnish (if you want to consider it harm) is that it builds up in the piston ring grooves, but in fact it may actually increase the tension on those tired piston rings.

Sludge is a yucky, gunky substance that can clog the oil return passages and/or PCV valve, but is mainly an ugly reminder of a dastardly neglectful previous owner. If so, you should have spotted this abuse before you purchased the car, because if the previous owner neglected something as important as engine oil changes, you can be sure other maintenance was not performed either. A quick and easy way to spot sludge on any car is to examine the underside of the oil filler cap and inside the oil fill hole, usually in the camshaft/rocker arm cover. Evidence of varnish and high heat can be revealed by examining the oil and transmission dip sticks above the level marks for varnish and discoloration.

If you find any traces of 'dirt' inside your engine, ask your significant other if they let your child make mud cakes on top of the engine with the hood up. Otherwise, I would suspect a disgruntled co-worker, neighbor or cuckholded husband. If none of these suspects are evident, the next time there is a flood in your area, move your car to higher ground.
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  #57  
Old 03-16-2002, 02:36 PM
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RealNeal, Thanks for your comments regarding oil and engine wear. While you've spent a lot of time(and typing) going over some of the most basic things about oil that people generally know, for the most part you stated two things - You claim that

"I'm going to postulate that there are two primary factors concerning 'excessive' engine wear, the operating temperature while operating and the amount of sulphuric acid in the oil when the engine is off and cold."

Granted you're correct in assuming that both of these factors lead to the degradation of oil, although newer synthetics like Amsoil - have strong additive packages to combat the sulphuric acid formation, especially in diesels, where blowby is more of a concern. The temperature issue you're right on. While some newer oils protect better than old at temperatures less than operating temp, the running of engines, especially hard(flogging) running when they're cold, is a major cause of engine wear/oil breakdown.
However, I think you've left out one of the single most important factors related to engine wear with oil - particle/soot content. Thats why there is such a huge buzz about bypass oil filtration(which filter your oil down to 1/10th of a micron in certain brands), and how they extend the life of your engine. As well as the preference of oils with especially good soot suspension qualities. Auto manufacturers all recognize that particles down to the size of a few microns cause engine wear - and that an OEM filter traps particles in the 20-40 micron range at an average 85% efficiency.

Also - the comment made about older folks and oil change intervals, that was me. You misunderstood the point - the point wasn't that old people were responsible for myths regarding drain intervals. The point was that people that are now older, are part of an older generation, that grew up with inferior oils to those produced today, and are therefore possibly stuck on the 'old school' philosophy that oil needs to be changed every 3000 miles.
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  #58  
Old 03-16-2002, 07:40 PM
djohanson
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I change every 3000, and have over 170,000 miles on my .........Ford Explorer and it is still going strong...just think how long your Benz will last .....I wish who ever owned my 420SEL had done the same
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  #59  
Old 03-16-2002, 09:35 PM
realneal
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Subtitle: The Debbil Made Me Do It.

To whom it may concern,

If anyone other than Lightman is reading this, please accept my apologies if I seem to go around in circles--responding to this thread has too many loose ends, so to speak--so please bear with me.

Lightman, this is just for you.

Although my last post was admittedly lengthy, it was well under the maximum allowed, so unless you are the moderator of this forum and find some valid reason to take exception to the content of my post, get over it.

Actually, you were not obligated to read it, and it must have been quite a waste of time for you, since you obviously consider yourself knowledgeable about "some of the most basic things about oil that people generally know".

I beg to differ with your opinion if you continue to insist that "newer synthetics like Amsoil - have strong additive packages to combat the sulphuric acid formation, especially in diesels, where blowby is more of a concern".

Actually, sulphuric acid formations are not so much of a problem in diesels unless the diesel happens to be in the family car and is used for errands and lugging the kids around. Commercial vehicles, including diesel-powered ones, operate over long periods and the high engine operating temperatures tend to keep sulphuric acid formation to a minimum.

More to the point, blowby is of more concern in diesels and any engine with a combination of high compression and large pistons, because blowby is the only reason for carbon particles, sorry, the new, improved term is particle/soot content, otherwise known as "that black crap that makes the oil look so dirty".

No matter how bad it looks to a purist, carbon particles have absolutely nothing to do with engine wear, and just because the oil looks dirty, that condition alone does not make it so.

By the way, do the "strong additive packages to combat the sulphuric acid formation" have a name? Why haven't the marketing novelists been told?

I did not find any reference to "strong additive packages to combat the sulphuric acid formation" on the Amsoil web site, but I did learn that "AMSOIL also has a Health Division called ALTRUM, which sells Multivitamins, AquaBrite Water Filters, Pure Power Cleaning Products and AGGRAND Natural Fertilizer Products". To me, that reminds me of Amway International, the get-rich soap pyramid scheme.

Your supposition,

"I think you've left out one of the single most important factors related to engine wear with oil - particle/soot content. Thats why there is such a huge buzz about bypass oil filtration(which filter your oil down to 1/10th of a micron in certain brands), and how they extend the life of your engine. As well as the preference of oils with especially good soot suspension qualities. Auto manufacturers all recognize that particles down to the size of a few microns cause engine wear - and that an OEM filter traps particles in the 20-40 micron range at an average 85% efficiency."

WHEW!!!

leads me to believe that you may be the perfect candidate for that bridge in Brooklyn that I have just put up for sale. That is, if you have not yet signed your life over to Amway--sorry, Amsoil.

To anyone other than Lightman who is still hanging in there...

I must apologize for the fact that I actually started this thread here, but somehow added all the previous crap. The debbil must have made me do it.

Anyway, now you have an idea as to what I previously meant by 'a thread with a lot of loose ends'...

Lightman, you can start reading again.

Thanks for enlightening me concerning 'oil-particle/soot content' and 'bypass oil filtration', which seem to be new terms for old concepts.

Your observation is right on target concerning my spending a lot of time (and typing) if, and only if, I were so misguided as to think I could change your mind about any subject whatsoever.

The thought never occurred to me. Actually, I am surprised that you took the time to respond, considering the facts you are presenting to back up your assertion.

First, I did not think oil was the subject--I thought the subject was 'Any fanatics religiously change oil @ 2.5K intervals or less?'

To me, the subject title was doublespeak for 'Is anyone stupid enough to change oil @ 2.5K intervals or less?' to which I gave a tediously long dissertation that attempted to answer the more reasonable questions and theories presented by people who were interested in the subject.

Although that was my first post on this site and I did not even consider the length until I saved it. I was surprised to discover it was 8800 or so characters long, but still much less than the maximum of 10000 allowed.

If someone had asked for a short response, I could have simply responded with just one paragraph,

"Sulphuric acid does not go away on it's own--it will not evaporate--if the oil is not changed, the damage continues to occur. For this reason alone, vehicle manufacturers recommend the oil change every umpty-ump miles OR three months. The three months is to ensure that any sulphuric acid is eliminated at least every three months."

For some reason, when I went back and copied that paragraph from my original post, I realized why you responded to my post with 'smoke and mirrors' tactics. Because I had to surround that paragraph with a lot of facts (time and typing) that just happen to make sense, and because the facts are contrary to your opinion, that blows you away, because then you had to work like hell to discredit me so you could hide the fact that your opinion sucks hind tit.


When I was much younger, I had cars that used 'bypass oil filtration', but we just used the now-antiquated term 'oil filter'. Later on, high performance demands finally got the auto manufacturers off their butts and then we had 'full flow oil filters', which still serve us adequately today. It seems to me that many of these new terms were invented so snake oil merchants could sell the gullible public products that could remove that gunky sludge from their old oil just like they did forty years ago. The only problem was, even though your oil looked like you just poured it out of the can, all it filtered out were the larger chunks of metal, any bugs that got into the engine while you were topping it off and that icky-gunky bunch of carbon particles nowadays referred to as 'oil-particle/soot content'. As a matter of fact, back in the '30s, when your oil started getting that 'dirty' look, it was time to change the filter. Lots of people took the cheap way out and used a roll of toilet paper, but I was a hot-rodder enthusiast who just had to have the good stuff, so I plunked my money down for a Fram or whatever to the company that had the best techno-speak writers who coined the fancy terms and spent big bucks on advertising in the auto magazines. Over the years, things haven't changed much.



In my younger days I was an aircraft engine mechanic. The engines ranged in size from around seven cylinder-16 liters to twenty-eight cylinder-70 plus liters, some producing one horsepower per pound with the largest weighing around 4000 pounds. They had every gizmo and gadget regardless of cost that a guy would want in an engine to provide reliability, low weight and all the power that could be wrung out of a gasoline powered piston engine. The oil was straight SAE 50 weight. Air cooled engines have never used detergent oil. The largest engine used a 50+ gallon oil tank and the oil was replaced when the engine was changed, after about 2000 hours of flight, which equates to about 500,000 miles. Oil was filtered through a pair of oil filters about the same diameter and length as a my MB V8, but they consisted of layers of fine mesh to filter out anything that might interfere with oil flow. Magnets were used to catch metallic particles and the oil was analyzed as part of periodic maintenance inspections. These engines were machined to the same tolerances as today's automobile engines and the gasoline powered piston engines in aircraft today still use the same oil, filters and procedures.

Particles measured in microns have significance in marketing executives imaginations, but are not credible as a way to increase reliability or reduce wear.
Engine bearing clearances are measured in thousandths of an inch, and three-thousandths clearance can pass a whole bunch of 20-40 micron particles of carbon, or oil-particle/soot stuff. I have never heard of soot particles that could cause engine wear, which is the primary reason for filtering oil in the first place.

Your last point, in a roundabout way still implies that old is inferior, which is beside my main point that if you do not eliminate sulphuric acid from your oil, your engine bearings will continue to be damaged.

Marketing claims about 'strong additive packages' will not rid your oil of sulphuric acid, and I sincerely doubt that an old technology, hence inferior, bypass filter will either.

Well, I guess that is all I have to say, and since I have 'wasted' the better part of a day, I hope it was worth it for someone, but I do not expect that someone to be Lightman...

Hell, I don't even know if I blew away the smoke or broke any mirrors, but if someone is still reading this, and if you learned anything other than how Realneal makes an ass of himself, drop me a line.

Now I'll see if I broke 10,000 whatevers.
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  #60  
Old 03-16-2002, 09:49 PM
dweller
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Not too long ago, I bought a "new" 1982 240D. I changed the oil 50 miles after I picked it up (Mobil1 15-50) and drove it 1000 miles home, plus another1000 miles. Then, I was driving it to Florida, from Michigan, 3 K round trip, so I changed it just before I left (Delvac1). Got back and decided to change it again (now it's permanently on Delvac1). These "early" changes were done with the idea of cleaning out the engine--the original owner used only dino and the records don't show which brands or weights.

Now that I'm back to ordinary driving with two early "clean-out" changes, I'll revert to 5 K changes, which is what MB recommends. Any more often and I figure I'm wasting money as well as using unnecessary amounts of oil.
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