M103 - oil/coolant leak front of engine
 

UPDATE! It was the very short coolant hose that runs from the thermostat housing to the head that was leaking. Put in a new clamp and it has stopped leaking! Glad it was nothing serious! Thanks!

FINALLY a problem to report on my 88' 300SEL after it being a boringly trouble free car.

I have read about this and have seen several threads about the front timing cover being an issue on these cars. I was under my car the other day (after not driving it for 2 weeks, as I was out of town) and noticed coolant drips on the lower front of the oil pan. Concerned, I wiped under there and its a oil/coolant mix. Its green, but it feels more like oil once on the finger. Does this sound like its the timing chain cover or the headgasket? There is NO coolant in the oil, nor oil in the coolant and it never overheats. Its so small of a leak that the oil level is almost always full, even after 4000 miles and the coolant level has stayed the same over several months. I did have to add coolant back in the winter, but when temperatures warmed in the spring and summer, it never went down again.

Here are some photos I snapped about 2 weeks ago... still like this.

If it is the front timing chain cover, is this a difficult repair and how much would a typical shop charge on average to replace this seal? I dont know... maybe its time to get another car.

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e1...photos/071.jpg
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e1...photos/066.jpg
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e1...photos/067.jpg

thanks for any advice!

Coolant does feel a little oily, it does not mean it is mixed with oil...

The best thing to do now is to clean the engine really good, and try to pinpoint the exact location of the leak (s). other than that, you might start an expensive repair that you might not need.....

From the picture, it does not look like the timing cover. it is not the water pump because it is on the other side of the engine.....

it is either something simple like a coolant hose/ pipe squirting coolant everywhere, or more serious such as an engine freeze plug, or leaky headgasket..., but again, i am just guessing here. the starting point is to clean the engine, raise the car until you find the source (you might use a mirror for the hard to see areas), and go from there...

or you could drop it off at your indy :D

Good luck !!

Edit: WOW, i just noticed you have 2000ish posts, so you probably know what I've said already.,,,,ignore my post

clean up the area and then run the engine and see where it comes from

Many higher mileage M103's I see have this problem.
Head gasket starting to deteriorate.

Thanks for the replies... I will try to clean it and check it, or get a shop to.

Headgasket? Oh my! :eek: I was hoping I would not have that problem quite yet with this car. :( I cant afford to have the headgasket replaced at this time. Not now. I just spent a small fortune on my LS400. :rolleyes:

Is 157K high miles for these M103 engines?

I had a 380SE with nearly 280K and it was still fine.

If its the headgasket, it will have to find it a new home... one where someone knows how to or can afford to fix it. :(

Not sure of these are any better, but here are more I took today. I finally drove the car after it had been setting for about 2 weeks, checked oil and coolant... still full. hmmm.

Yeah, it all appears to be on the right side of the oil pan.

Left side of pan is dry...
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e1...otos/001-1.jpg

more of the right side...
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e1...otos/003-1.jpg
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e1...photos/004.jpg
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e1...photos/005.jpg
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e1...otos/011-1.jpg

I just completed a head-gasket R&R on my 1990 300SEL. I had a similar situation. I had both oil and coolant seeping from the head gasket on the passenger side of the car. Mine was more toward the rear of the block. No oil and coolant mixed in the engine, and I never had an overheating problem. If it is a head gasket leak you should be able to look up, from under the car, on that side of the engine at where the block meets the head. In my case there was a thin trail of oil and coolant and white effervescence clearly leaving the leaking area of the headgasket.

Thanks. Was that a pain in the neck to replace?

I dont have coolant in oil or visa-versa and it never overheats... also I have not even noticed a drop in the coolant level or oil level, except back in the winter months, I had to add coolant, but it didnt drop in the summer months.

Looks to me like the timing cover is leaking oil slowly. Clean it all up because otherwise it will be impossible on this car.

As for coolant, look at the freeze plugs on the block.

158k is not a lot of miles on a 103...but if the head gasket is still original its probably getting close by now.

Take a close look at the block coolant drain plug on the right side of the engine to make sure it isn't leaking. You may want to put a wrench on it and verify that it's tight.

Unfortunately, from your various pictures it appears that the head gasket is leaking. Our daughter's 1991 300CE's engine had a similar appearance when the head gasket was shot. After a local indie replaced the head gasket the engine was bone-dry. As I recall the bill for parts and labor was $2,500 ... most of the cost being labor. An experienced DIY'er can do the job very inexpensively with the proper tools. Best to use a lift for pulling the head.

The head gasket job wasn’t as bad as I thought it would be; but it was a lot of work.
This is what I did; drain coolant, remove spark plugs, set engine at TDC on #1 piston, remove exhaust manifold at the head, remove intake manifold at the head, remove fan, serp belt, distributor cap and rotor, valve cover, upper timing chain cover, cam gear, Timing chain tensioner, upper timing chain rail pin, removed head. Once off I cleaned the surface of the head and block with a pneumatic die grinder and those 3M 3” disk pads that screw lock into place. Then set the gasket in place and torque to spec. I also changed out my water pump at the same time and that added quite a bit of time to the project. The water pump to me was worse then removing the head. I had about $450 in parts and supplies in the whole job. The job went smooth except for a half dozen bolts that really slowed me down.
A couple observations; I think you really need two people to remove and set the cylinder head properly and safely, unless you have a very extensive tool box already you need to have special/odd/improvised, tools to remove the fan, timing chain tensioner, timing chain upper rail pin, and head bolts. I also helped to have a wobble head 3/8 drive extension to get at those water pump bolts. Oh; and if you replace the water pump, be sure to use a little grease or the same sealer you use for the timing chain cover to hold the big “O” ring seal in place while you reassemble. If you don’t, the gasket can go in crooked and you will have to take it all apart again. Don’t ask me why I know

lol. Not at all. I am an idiot when it comes to cars. ;)

Thanks outofspec for that detailed explanation - definitely sounds like something too much for me to tackle. :(

Ph2cho - thanks. It does feel greasy, but its green too... the little drips from the pan are green. :(

Ferdman - thanks... it hurts to hear it could likely be the headgasket. Unfortunately, I cant afford such a repair.... not now. My uncle in South Carolina found a guy to replace his headgasket for $1200 on his 300SE (1992). A little mechanic from Korea did the work. Other places were quoting him $2500-3000. He also did his evaporator core for $700.

I would probably be better off trying to sell it or trade it. I prefer to trade it, so I wont have to pay taxes. I didnt see the leak until now and I had hoped that it (headgasket) had already been replaced since its not using any oil now. When I bought the car, it was from a broker in Atlanta. The guy drove the car up here to Tennessee. I looked under it and it looked clean, but I bet it was leaking then and they had cleaned up the engine to dump it... on me of course. :(
I should not be suprised though... I have never had any luck with cars... aways buy something that soon needs major work. People always taking advantage of my trusting soul. I just took his word for it and paid him $2600.

I dont know what the car is worth to someone now or how long it will be OK like this if it is the HG. The cars body and interior are nice, everything works (A/C is only cool) and the transmission is good, so its still a good car in that aspect.

Has anyone ever heard of or tried that Lucas headgasket stop leak? Its like $50, but says it WILL stop your leaky headgasket... but not sure what kind of # it would do on your radiator or heater core.

Oh well... sounds like I have some decisions to make. :o I just missed the cash for clunkers deal. ;)

First thing though I guess is clean up that area then see where its leaking? Can I just spray something like orange power and wash it down with the hose and not hurt anything? Another option is take it to a MB tech.

Thanks again.

I can't believe you'd give up on this car just because of a minor leak from the head gasket.

It could leak like this for years and give you no other problems.

If it bothers you, take it to an independent and get the head gasket replaced for $1,200 and drive the damn car for the next 10 years.

I too believe you should fix the leak and keep the car. I would use a engine degreaser and clean up any traces of oil. You could continue to monitor the leakage and fluid levels. Records for my 300CE indicate that the head gasket was leaking out oil as far back as 2003. I just had the top end rebuilt this year and it was still operating fine since the leak was external and did not affect the engine compression. If your car is in otherwise good health, I would go ahead and do the head gasket at a independent specialist. With that many miles you would be wise to check and replace the valve seals and guides if they have never been done. The M103 tends to have a weak spot with those two items.