|
|
|
#1
|
||||
|
||||
Emissions. W124 E320 failing NOx
Hi all
Question for the collective wisdom out there. My 94 E320 has failed the emissions test in Arizona several times. These are the initial numbers and they have not changed much in any of the subsequent tests Pollutant Reading Limit ResultFor the initial test, I just took the car as is, no tuneup or anything. Car is/ was running great. Failed with the above numbers. Then I did an oil change and tuneup. Essentially the same numbers. Car ran about the same, perhaps a little smoother. I used Chevron fuel injector cleaner in every tank for a week or two, ran the tank low and added a bottle of HEET as prescribed in some other forums (non Mercedes). Essentially the same result. Slightly lower HC and CO numbers, but not noticably lower. Marginally lower at best. Then I cleaned out/ rooted the EGR tube using the methodology outlined in several threads here and there. Essentially the same numbers. I'm loath to replace the catalytic converter ($1600 from the dealer, ouch!!!) or change any parts unless I can nail down the problem. Some have stated to just change the catalytic converter, but surely if that was the problem I should be failing the HC and CO portions of the test, no? Besides, I am not going to spend that much coin unless I absolutely know that that is the problem. If I even do. The car is worth perhaps that much with the extensive milage on it (170K.) The culprits for high NOx are listed as mainly the EGR tube being blocked, lean mixture and high temps. Being that I unblocked the tube, I had the subsequent tests done with the heater in the on position, and the mixture is electronically controlled, I am at my wits end. When I did the EGR tube I did test the EGR valves operation by applying vacuum to it and it opened like it should. I have been told to use high octane fuel ( is 91 going to make a difference? It's all I can find here) and take it there before the car has warmed up. My plan is to leave the car near the testing facility overnight and drive it there first thing in the morning. With maybe a bottle of octane booster in the tank. Any pointers or advice is greatly appreciated.
__________________
'O=00=O' bmw 2002. long live the legend |
#2
|
|||
|
|||
If you pull vacuum on the EGR valve with the engine running, does the engine almost DIE?
If not, then back to cleaning OR replacing the EGR tube.
__________________
MERCEDES Benz Master Guild Technician (6 TIMES) ASE Master Technician Mercedes Benz Star Technician (2 times) 44 years foreign automotive repair 27 Years M.B. Shop foreman (dealer) MB technical information Specialist (15 years) 190E 2.3 16V ITS SCCA race car (sold) 1986 190E 2.3 16V 2.5 (sold) Retired Moderator |
#3
|
||||
|
||||
I did not test it while the car was running. I tested it when I removed it from the car to access the EGR tube.
I will have to figure out how to apply vacuum to it when the car is running.
__________________
'O=00=O' bmw 2002. long live the legend |
#4
|
|||
|
|||
I've always been told you want the motor good and hot for emissions testing.
Is your O2 newer?
__________________
68 280SL - 70 280SL - 70 300SEL 3.5 - 72 350SL - 72 280SEL 4.5 - 72 220 - 72 220D - 73 450SL - 84 230GE - 87 200TD - 90 190E 2.0 - 03 G500 Nissan GTR - Nissan Skyline GTS25T - Toyota GTFour - Rover Mini - Toyota Land Cruiser HJ60 - Cadillac Eldorado - BMW E30 - BMW 135i |
#5
|
|||
|
|||
High NOx only indicates EGR system failure. OR possibly, but unlikely, a bad cat. I'm pretty sure you can find good quality OEM cats for around $600-800 installed if you look other places than the dealership. Otherwise I would throw one of those universal cats (OK quality) for around $150-200 installed. Your old cat is worth a little over $100 to someone who uses them for their precious metals. The OE Benz cats have a lot of platinum in them which is why they are valuable.
__________________
http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z...-RESIZED-1.jpg 1991 300E - 212K and rising fast... |
#6
|
|||
|
|||
even though you might not have a check engine light on, I would suggest testing your 02 sensor ... i remember seeing a test for it on this site somewhere
__________________
1994 E320, 145,000 miles |
#7
|
|||
|
|||
Since most benz motors are made to run on premium grade I would suggest running it yes. You can run lower grade gas but not supposed to.
I second the O2 sensor. How old is the coil? maybe worth a shot better spark never hurt. |
#8
|
|||
|
|||
The O2 sensor has "little OR nothing" to do with this issue as the CO & HC's are within range...
High NOx on that car comes from either poor EGR flow OR weak catalyst. IF fact, ONLY HIGH NOx reading cannot come from a non-working O2 sensor.
__________________
MERCEDES Benz Master Guild Technician (6 TIMES) ASE Master Technician Mercedes Benz Star Technician (2 times) 44 years foreign automotive repair 27 Years M.B. Shop foreman (dealer) MB technical information Specialist (15 years) 190E 2.3 16V ITS SCCA race car (sold) 1986 190E 2.3 16V 2.5 (sold) Retired Moderator |
#9
|
||||
|
||||
Thank you for your collective wisdom. I shall definitely re root the EGR tube.
I'm still not sure how I am going to apply vacuum to the EGR valve. When I go, I will definitely add octane booster to a low fuel tank.
__________________
'O=00=O' bmw 2002. long live the legend |
#10
|
|||
|
|||
All you do to apply vaccuum to the EGR valve is disconnect the vaccuum hose, and suck.
You should be able to hear it snap shut when you remove vaccuum |
#11
|
||||
|
||||
I did remove the EGR valve and test it by sucking on the hose. It did open and close when vacuum was applied and removed. I didn't know if it was supposed to open in some special way like slowly, or snap open etc
__________________
'O=00=O' bmw 2002. long live the legend |
#12
|
||||
|
||||
The nut holding the EGR valve seems to be rounding off. Couldn't take it off.
Any ideas? I'm thinking loosen the EGR pipe at both ends and just root the pipe with the valve in situ. Obviously I will have to remove the allen bolt on the oil filter housing. I just don't know if I will have enough access.
__________________
'O=00=O' bmw 2002. long live the legend |
#13
|
||||
|
||||
Are you still using regular grade fuel?
It may not be you, but somebody somewhere with a name similar said something about your use of 87 octane on a road trip without any problems and your continued use of regular grade fuel. Just saying, maybe the use of regular fuel over an extended period of time does have it's side effects. Food for thought is all. Would be interesting to see if that were the case.
__________________
Allen Kroliczek Oak Grove Autosport | Oak Grove Autosport 01 G500, 82 300TD, quite a few more..... |
#14
|
|||
|
|||
Quote:
Even though there is a knock protection system on these cars, there can still be detonation you are NOT hearing, causing engine damage!
__________________
http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z...-RESIZED-1.jpg 1991 300E - 212K and rising fast... |
#15
|
||||
|
||||
That is/ was me, but I don't see how using regular gas regularly would affect NOx significantly. The difference in flame speed between premium and regular is micro milliseconds. The slightly slower burn of premium makes for a more "complete" burn and keeps combustion pressure on the piston for a fraction of a second longer, ergo more power.
To whit, I have only been using premium for at least a month and driving far more aggressively than the typical hypermiler driving I do. Going from circa 400 miles per tank to ~ 300 while paying more for that gas is a bitter pill to swallow. I have intended to get it done several times but I am only finally free this weekend. We will see if premium fuel makes a difference.
__________________
'O=00=O' bmw 2002. long live the legend |
Bookmarks |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|