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  #1  
Old 12-21-2010, 04:36 PM
85 DSEL's Avatar
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CRAZY CRAZY CRAZY! WTH is going on with my climate control?

OK, leaving on a 2K mi trip tomorrow morning about 6:30 so I need some help here.

Took the '95 in for a few items of service such as tranny drain/service, rear wheel bearing, radiator flush and new MB t-stat and coolant. Took the car on the highway this afternoon for a few minutes and discovered some weird stuff:
  • temp gauge running ~90C on the road
  • come to a stop and the AC starts coming out the side dash vents (outside temps ~ 30F)
  • AS SOON as I accelerate and start rolling, the air coming out the dash turns warm/hot
  • temp gauge almost IMMEDIATELY falls down to ~ 87 - 90C
It's driving me crazy! HELP! Any ideas? Thanks...

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1995 W124 Wagon

Dale

1995 E320 Wagon 185K
1988 260e Sedan 135K
2007 F-150 XLT 188K
2003 Harley Davidson FLTRI Anniversary 26K
-----------------------------
2006 BMW 330Ci 110K - SOLD

Last edited by 85 DSEL; 12-21-2010 at 06:35 PM. Reason: misspelled word
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  #2  
Old 12-21-2010, 04:45 PM
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  • temp gauge running ~90C on the road Normal, maybe a bit on the hot side
  • come to a stop and the AC starts coming out the side dash vents (outside temps ~ 30F) Not AC, just outside air. Again, this can be normal at a stop/idle depending on the car.
  • AS SOON as I accelerate and start rolling, the air coming out the dash turns warm/hot Normal given above circumstance
  • temp gauge almost IMMEDIATELY falls down to ~ 87 - 90C You didn't say what it went up to...? Sounds like they may not have properly burped the system so there is still air in it. Also you could have a stuck thermostat but that is less likely being straight from MB. All of these symptoms point to either low coolant, air in the system or lack of circulation.
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  #3  
Old 12-21-2010, 04:57 PM
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Sorry, the temp gets up to almost 100C.

tbomachines: all these symptoms are NOT normal for my car though! That's what's got me flustered! I'm thinking, as you stated, it just may be air in the system and it may work its way out as we travel.
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1995 W124 Wagon

Dale

1995 E320 Wagon 185K
1988 260e Sedan 135K
2007 F-150 XLT 188K
2003 Harley Davidson FLTRI Anniversary 26K
-----------------------------
2006 BMW 330Ci 110K - SOLD
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  #4  
Old 12-21-2010, 05:13 PM
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A 124 always blows air through the outside vents, regardless whether the car is being heated or cooled. If you want to turn these off, you have to do so using the knob next to the vent.

Sounds like your aux electric water pump is dead. It's job is to circulate coolant through the heater core so you get lots of heat at idle. Othewise the air temp changes with the engine speed - what you are seeing.

Engine temps of 90-100 in cool weather are too high. Could be a lot of things, but start with the simple stuff. I've seen the Behr thermostats fail by running a bit warm before they stick shut. Might want to replace it and/or carry a spare and tools on your trip. It's an easy change out.
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Old 12-21-2010, 06:16 PM
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I just learned something new. This car has an auxiliary water pump! My w123 diesel had one I know but had no clue this car did. Thanks.

Is it a difficult repair/change out? Is it on passenger side of car?
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1995 W124 Wagon

Dale

1995 E320 Wagon 185K
1988 260e Sedan 135K
2007 F-150 XLT 188K
2003 Harley Davidson FLTRI Anniversary 26K
-----------------------------
2006 BMW 330Ci 110K - SOLD
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  #6  
Old 12-21-2010, 10:24 PM
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Air in the cooling system, have it filled properly.
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  #7  
Old 12-22-2010, 04:57 AM
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Dale, go back to the shop that performed the cooling system work and insist that the system be vented/filled properly.

It always amazes me how many folks experience problems after having work performed by an indie or dealer, and don't request them to sort out the problem. It's hardly a coincidence that other problems occur immediately after work is performed on an automobile. The problems are typically the result of poor diagnostic ability, poor workmanship, or inexperience. If it were me I wouldn't have any future work done at that shop.
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Old 12-22-2010, 06:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by babymog View Post
Air in the cooling system, have it filled properly.
I'm still unclear - will the air dissipate as it is driven or is it something that needs to be physically (re) done?




Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferdman View Post
Dale, go back to the shop that performed the cooling system work and insist that the system be vented/filled properly.

It always amazes me how many folks experience problems after having work performed by an indie or dealer, and don't request them to sort out the problem. It's hardly a coincidence that other problems occur immediately after work is performed on an automobile. The problems are typically the result of poor diagnostic ability, poor workmanship, or inexperience. If it were me I wouldn't have any future work done at that shop.
I hear you LOUD and CLEAR! I DID run it back over to him and he seemed typically 'rushed' and stated he was trying to get his work load for day finished up for his "other" customers! I said, "Excuse me. I am a customer as well! I run a business and blah blah blah..." He came outside (very cold and windy) raised the hood, took a DC light probe and ran it over the fuse block, sat in drivers seat and watched/looked at the temp gauge. Basically told me it should be fine as he has noticed that some of the more "recent" t-stats from MB has been "running a little hotter..." than past ones blah blah blah. He stated he "..couldn't really do anything right now that he'd need to schedule it back in to take a look..."!

It's likely it will be the last time he touches the car. MC Motorcars, Lytle, OH. Two guys, both with MB tech experience for a number of years before their shop. They only do MB's. Qualifications should be exemplary.


Tough thing here for ME and my FAMILY, we are LITERALLY ready to pull out of the garage, headed on holiday trip to FL. Oh well, thank God for cell phones, AAA, MB Roadside Assistance, etc.

Wish me well..

Y'all have a Merry Christmas - I'm gonna try!
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1995 W124 Wagon

Dale

1995 E320 Wagon 185K
1988 260e Sedan 135K
2007 F-150 XLT 188K
2003 Harley Davidson FLTRI Anniversary 26K
-----------------------------
2006 BMW 330Ci 110K - SOLD
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  #9  
Old 12-22-2010, 08:14 AM
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What an amazing attitude on the part of your mechanic! If you'll be zipping down I-95 in FL, stop off in Titusville and let Pierre Hedary fix the problem for you. I guarantee you won't get excuses from him. Happy Holidays.
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  #10  
Old 12-22-2010, 11:16 AM
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I've changed the coolant in 124 cars with the M104 engine many a time. Never had any difficulties with air locks. The first time you run the engine up to 2000RPM any air pockets will be pushed right out of the system. I think your new thermostat is defective.
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  #11  
Old 12-22-2010, 12:36 PM
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With their attitude and workmanship I hope that their business is short-lived before they cost more owners money, and degrade the reputation of these fine old cars with their apparent need to duck the blame for their shoddy workmanship. Unfortunately, if the local dealer does bad work and overcharges, they enable half-assed workmanship from their competitors as the competitors become the lesser of evils.

The air might eventually work its way out as you drive, but during this time you will not be properly cooling any places where the air pockets exist (head?) risking damage to the car/engine.

Should never have left the shop like that.
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  #12  
Old 12-22-2010, 01:41 PM
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Update

Well I stopped early at a dealership in nortern Cincinnati area and two service writers came over and "diagnosed" the problem as possibly/probably the duovalve. Neither of them were concerned over the temps north of 80c, said it seemed very normal. We are now in Knoxville and temp gauge has been very consistently running ~ 90c.

The remaining issue is the cool air that comes from dash vents as we come to a stop. Although it's getting warmer further south we go so it won't be as much an issue - I hope!

Thanks for all the replies and will keep you updated...
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1995 W124 Wagon

Dale

1995 E320 Wagon 185K
1988 260e Sedan 135K
2007 F-150 XLT 188K
2003 Harley Davidson FLTRI Anniversary 26K
-----------------------------
2006 BMW 330Ci 110K - SOLD
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  #13  
Old 12-22-2010, 02:18 PM
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If you suspect air is trapped in the cooling system you can get some opinions here using the search function.

In the keyword(s) field type in

bleed air

without quotes - there are 3 hits in the Diesel section - although the advise given could be applied to a gas car.

In a post from years ago - MBDoc commented on elevating the front of the car as is mentioned in the 3 threads I found.
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  #14  
Old 12-22-2010, 02:46 PM
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Yup, elevate the front of the car and it will eventually burp out. If you're impatient like me, there is a bleed screw (at least on the M103s) on top of the thermostat housing where you can let it bubble out into a bucket below as the pressure builds until there are no bubbles left. Sounds like you need a new mechanic, what a story!
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  #15  
Old 12-22-2010, 02:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tbomachines View Post
there is a bleed screw (at least on the M103s) on top of the thermostat housing where you can let it bubble out into a bucket below as the pressure builds until there are no bubbles left.

Not all M103 engines have the bleed cap on top of the t-stat.

It's my understanding MB came out with it some time after the M103 was introduced to deal with the trapped air issue.

I ordered one maybe 10 years ago and had issues with it leaking - regardless of bolt torque and after trying different washers(there's one under the bleed bolt). Hope others had better luck.

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