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  #1  
Old 01-19-2011, 01:00 PM
JamesDean's Avatar
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Reman vs New Brake Master Cylinder?

I was looking a replacing my brake master cylinder some time here and saw some reman masters..they're like 50% cheaper than the new ones...

Anyone have any feelings towards reman/new?

This would be for my 201 190E, it'll be a 0044307501 master (500E, v8 126s, etc)

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  #2  
Old 01-19-2011, 01:47 PM
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The fact Mercedes doesn't include these in its own rebuilt parts catalog might be of some significance. (It would influence me to purchase new)

http://www.startekinfo.com/StarTek/outside/11039/?requestedDocId=11039
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  #3  
Old 01-19-2011, 03:01 PM
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I'll throw this out - not because I necessarily believe it - just making it available for view.

Back in the earlier days of the internet - there was the Ritter-Easley MB list.

Stu Ritter was an MB tech - owned an independent dealership in Colorado - worked on MBs for 30 years. He started his career in a San Franscisco MB dealership.

He was adamantly against the use of rebuilt brake calipers - safety issue.

The new/dealer provided MB calipers were top flight in his view; anything else was liking skating on thin ice.

Believe what you want.
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  #4  
Old 01-19-2011, 03:14 PM
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Well, we're talking master cylinders here, and we're also talking a stable of well-worn mules. Basically the wear items on MC's are the piston seals. If it ain't a-leakin' it's a-workin'. If your brake pedal isn't caving in as you maintain pressure, the seals are good.
The next question would be are rebuild seals as durable as OEM? No idea, but how long do they need to hold, another 18 years? Also, on my '85 W201 I remember replacing the master cylinder in 1997, so who's to say that OEM is better quality anyway?
I'm sure the re-man has a warranty, so I'd have no qualms using it, but would just make sure it worked to my satisfaction within the warranty.
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  #5  
Old 01-19-2011, 03:20 PM
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Hirnbeiss,

My pedal is fairly soft, up until the final 1/4 worth of travel where it mostly engages the brakes. The first 3/4 really dont stop the car. Slow it down a little yes..The pedal kind of sinks thru the first 3/4 with ease..

With the size of the calipers on my car I feel it should really be stopping it by no more than 1/2 pedal travel. if that.
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82 300SD 145k
82 300SD 265k
87 420SEL 230k
89 420SEL 210k
89 560SEL 118k
90 300SE 262k RIP 5/25/2010
90 560SEL 154k
91 300D 2.5 Turbo. 241k
93 190E 3.0 235k
93 300E 195k
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  #6  
Old 01-19-2011, 03:22 PM
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Refurbished hydraulics - on cars - hmmm that can be a tricky one. On aircraft (particularly military aircraft) there is a wonderful thing called scheduled maintenance where things get taken off - checked and repaired. Having been part of this - I can say that that is where components get saved before something gets to a non-repairable stage or corrosion sets in.

From my experience of hydraulic components on cars I would say that if the part is corroded near or on the sealing surfaces you may as well chuck it. I have recently, for example, spent a lot of time trying to reseal the calipers on my W123 but they were too far gone.

But that doesn't necessarily mean that your MC is dead - if you can do the work yourself you could rebuild and test it. Failing that if you know of someone else who can why not get their professional opinion?

EDIT ah ha seeing what you've just written I'd say bleed it first!
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1992 W201 190E 1.8 171,000 km - Daily driver
1981 W123 300D ~ 100,000 miles / 160,000 km - project car stripped to the bone
1965 Land Rover Series 2a Station Wagon CIS recovery therapy!
1961 Volvo PV544 Bare metal rat rod-ish thing

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Last edited by Stretch; 01-19-2011 at 03:24 PM. Reason: More info came along
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  #7  
Old 01-19-2011, 03:28 PM
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Ah I knew someone would say bleed them first.

They've been bled numerous times. I went through several tins of ATE TYP 200 fluid bleeding them. I swapped master cylinders from another 500E unit I had sitting on my shelf (for about a year) then had them professionally bled..was nice for a few months..but now its as I described above.

I think I've decide on getting a new ATE master, its like $155, a reman one is like $100+core, $55 isnt much for a new unit.
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82 300SD 145k
82 300SD 265k
87 420SEL 230k
89 420SEL 210k
89 560SEL 118k
90 300SE 262k RIP 5/25/2010
90 560SEL 154k
91 300D 2.5 Turbo. 241k
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  #8  
Old 01-19-2011, 03:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesDean View Post
Ah I knew someone would say bleed them first.

They've been bled numerous times. I went through several tins of ATE TYP 200 fluid bleeding them. I swapped master cylinders from another 500E unit I had sitting on my shelf (for about a year) then had them professionally bled..was nice for a few months..but now its as I described above.

I think I've decide on getting a new ATE master, its like $155, a reman one is like $100+core, $55 isnt much for a new unit.
I hope it fixes the problem - but remember there are more parts to the system than just the MC...
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1992 W201 190E 1.8 171,000 km - Daily driver
1981 W123 300D ~ 100,000 miles / 160,000 km - project car stripped to the bone
1965 Land Rover Series 2a Station Wagon CIS recovery therapy!
1961 Volvo PV544 Bare metal rat rod-ish thing

I'm here to chat about cars and to help others - I'm not here "to always be right" like an internet warrior



Don't leave that there - I'll take it to bits!
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  #9  
Old 01-19-2011, 03:43 PM
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I've not bought it yet but, yes you are correct.

I'm also going to replace all the soft lines with new ones. I hope at the point it solves the problem. Not sure what the next step would be. Not the booster...as if that was bad the pedal would be hard to apply, which is not the case. I guess that leaves calipers?
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82 300SD 145k
82 300SD 265k
87 420SEL 230k
89 420SEL 210k
89 560SEL 118k
90 300SE 262k RIP 5/25/2010
90 560SEL 154k
91 300D 2.5 Turbo. 241k
93 190E 3.0 235k
93 300E 195k
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  #10  
Old 01-19-2011, 03:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesDean View Post
I've not bought it yet but, yes you are correct.

I'm also going to replace all the soft lines with new ones. I hope at the point it solves the problem. Not sure what the next step would be. Not the booster...as if that was bad the pedal would be hard to apply, which is not the case. I guess that leaves calipers?
It would indeed mean calipers - but if as you say the MC is good for a few months I feel obliged to point out that flexible lines are cheaper than a MC...
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1992 W201 190E 1.8 171,000 km - Daily driver
1981 W123 300D ~ 100,000 miles / 160,000 km - project car stripped to the bone
1965 Land Rover Series 2a Station Wagon CIS recovery therapy!
1961 Volvo PV544 Bare metal rat rod-ish thing

I'm here to chat about cars and to help others - I'm not here "to always be right" like an internet warrior



Don't leave that there - I'll take it to bits!
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  #11  
Old 01-19-2011, 03:49 PM
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Good point, I should probably just pickup a set of flexible lines, install them, bleed, and see if theres any difference. Then, if none, either master or calipers. Good point sir.
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Cruise Control not working? Send me PM or email (jamesdean59@gmail.com). I might be able to help out.
Check here for compatibility, diagnostics, and availability!

82 300SD 145k
82 300SD 265k
87 420SEL 230k
89 420SEL 210k
89 560SEL 118k
90 300SE 262k RIP 5/25/2010
90 560SEL 154k
91 300D 2.5 Turbo. 241k
93 190E 3.0 235k
93 300E 195k
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  #12  
Old 01-19-2011, 04:44 PM
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for safety reasons I would always buy a new m/c. Don't have to have it in a mb box- ATE or whom ever supplies it to benz.

If you wanted to skimp and use a rebuilt caliper- that would be different.

Aerospace quality should be higher than any car stuff- but there again failure rate of new versus rebuilt, I think new will always win.

Michael
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  #13  
Old 01-19-2011, 05:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by samiam44 View Post
fIf you wanted to skimp and use a rebuilt caliper- that would be different.
Why would that be different?
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  #14  
Old 01-19-2011, 06:28 PM
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Mercedes wants ~$470 for a new caliper. Rebuilts are $92.

I've decided I wont buy a rebuilt master cylinder, the $50 is a lot different than $300+x2.
They sell a rebuilding kit, but its as most than a new ATE mc...

First order of business is the hoses though. I dont detect the brake pedal sinking. I detect it just taking full range of motion to fully apply. My 420SEL's brake feel 10x better.
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Cruise Control not working? Send me PM or email (jamesdean59@gmail.com). I might be able to help out.
Check here for compatibility, diagnostics, and availability!

82 300SD 145k
82 300SD 265k
87 420SEL 230k
89 420SEL 210k
89 560SEL 118k
90 300SE 262k RIP 5/25/2010
90 560SEL 154k
91 300D 2.5 Turbo. 241k
93 190E 3.0 235k
93 300E 195k
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  #15  
Old 01-20-2011, 12:24 AM
mak mak is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesDean View Post
Hirnbeiss,

My pedal is fairly soft, up until the final 1/4 worth of travel where it mostly engages the brakes. The first 3/4 really dont stop the car. Slow it down a little yes..The pedal kind of sinks thru the first 3/4 with ease..

With the size of the calipers on my car I feel it should really be stopping it by no more than 1/2 pedal travel. if that.
i replaced the MC on my 108 due to the sinking pedal ,turned out one of the front pipes was swelling up under pressure and causing the sinkage.firm pedal now
On 126 replacing the MC has not done the trick as has pressure bleeding the system.it is indeed soft in the first half .braking works well .
mak

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