Reman vs New Brake Master Cylinder? - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

JamesDean · #1 01-19-2011, 12:00 PM

I was looking a replacing my brake master cylinder some time here and saw some reman masters..they're like 50% cheaper than the new ones...

Anyone have any feelings towards reman/new?

This would be for my 201 190E, it'll be a 0044307501 master (500E, v8 126s, etc)

lkchris · #2 01-19-2011, 12:47 PM

The fact Mercedes doesn't include these in its own rebuilt parts catalog might be of some significance. (It would influence me to purchase new)

http://www.startekinfo.com/StarTek/outside/11039/?requestedDocId=11039

Mike Murrell · #3 01-19-2011, 02:01 PM

I'll throw this out - not because I necessarily believe it - just making it available for view.

Back in the earlier days of the internet - there was the Ritter-Easley MB list.

Stu Ritter was an MB tech - owned an independent dealership in Colorado - worked on MBs for 30 years. He started his career in a San Franscisco MB dealership.

He was adamantly against the use of rebuilt brake calipers - safety issue.

The new/dealer provided MB calipers were top flight in his view; anything else was liking skating on thin ice.

Believe what you want.

Hirnbeiss · #4 01-19-2011, 02:14 PM

Well, we're talking master cylinders here, and we're also talking a stable of well-worn mules. Basically the wear items on MC's are the piston seals. If it ain't a-leakin' it's a-workin'. If your brake pedal isn't caving in as you maintain pressure, the seals are good.
The next question would be are rebuild seals as durable as OEM? No idea, but how long do they need to hold, another 18 years? Also, on my '85 W201 I remember replacing the master cylinder in 1997, so who's to say that OEM is better quality anyway?
I'm sure the re-man has a warranty, so I'd have no qualms using it, but would just make sure it worked to my satisfaction within the warranty.

JamesDean · #5 01-19-2011, 02:20 PM

Hirnbeiss,

My pedal is fairly soft, up until the final 1/4 worth of travel where it mostly engages the brakes. The first 3/4 really dont stop the car. Slow it down a little yes..The pedal kind of sinks thru the first 3/4 with ease..

With the size of the calipers on my car I feel it should really be stopping it by no more than 1/2 pedal travel. if that.

Stretch · #6 01-19-2011, 02:22 PM

Refurbished hydraulics - on cars - hmmm that can be a tricky one. On aircraft (particularly military aircraft) there is a wonderful thing called scheduled maintenance where things get taken off - checked and repaired. Having been part of this - I can say that that is where components get saved before something gets to a non-repairable stage or corrosion sets in.

From my experience of hydraulic components on cars I would say that if the part is corroded near or on the sealing surfaces you may as well chuck it. I have recently, for example, spent a lot of time trying to reseal the calipers on my W123 but they were too far gone.

But that doesn't necessarily mean that your MC is dead - if you can do the work yourself you could rebuild and test it. Failing that if you know of someone else who can why not get their professional opinion?

EDIT ah ha seeing what you've just written I'd say bleed it first!

JamesDean · #7 01-19-2011, 02:28 PM

Ah I knew someone would say bleed them first.

They've been bled numerous times. I went through several tins of ATE TYP 200 fluid bleeding them. I swapped master cylinders from another 500E unit I had sitting on my shelf (for about a year) then had them professionally bled..was nice for a few months..but now its as I described above.

I think I've decide on getting a new ATE master, its like $155, a reman one is like $100+core, $55 isnt much for a new unit.

Stretch · #8 01-19-2011, 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JamesDean

Ah I knew someone would say bleed them first.

They've been bled numerous times. I went through several tins of ATE TYP 200 fluid bleeding them. I swapped master cylinders from another 500E unit I had sitting on my shelf (for about a year) then had them professionally bled..was nice for a few months..but now its as I described above.

I think I've decide on getting a new ATE master, its like $155, a reman one is like $100+core, $55 isnt much for a new unit.

I hope it fixes the problem - but remember there are more parts to the system than just the MC...

JamesDean · #9 01-19-2011, 02:43 PM

I've not bought it yet but, yes you are correct.

I'm also going to replace all the soft lines with new ones. I hope at the point it solves the problem. Not sure what the next step would be. Not the booster...as if that was bad the pedal would be hard to apply, which is not the case. I guess that leaves calipers?

Stretch · #10 01-19-2011, 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JamesDean

I've not bought it yet but, yes you are correct.

I'm also going to replace all the soft lines with new ones. I hope at the point it solves the problem. Not sure what the next step would be. Not the booster...as if that was bad the pedal would be hard to apply, which is not the case. I guess that leaves calipers?

It would indeed mean calipers - but if as you say the MC is good for a few months I feel obliged to point out that flexible lines are cheaper than a MC...

JamesDean · #11 01-19-2011, 02:49 PM

Good point, I should probably just pickup a set of flexible lines, install them, bleed, and see if theres any difference. Then, if none, either master or calipers. Good point sir.

samiam44 · #12 01-19-2011, 03:44 PM

for safety reasons I would always buy a new m/c. Don't have to have it in a mb box- ATE or whom ever supplies it to benz.

If you wanted to skimp and use a rebuilt caliper- that would be different.

Aerospace quality should be higher than any car stuff- but there again failure rate of new versus rebuilt, I think new will always win.

Michael

Mike Murrell · #13 01-19-2011, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by samiam44

fIf you wanted to skimp and use a rebuilt caliper- that would be different.

Why would that be different?

JamesDean · #14 01-19-2011, 05:28 PM

Mercedes wants ~$470 for a new caliper. Rebuilts are $92.

I've decided I wont buy a rebuilt master cylinder, the $50 is a lot different than $300+x2.
They sell a rebuilding kit, but its as most than a new ATE mc...

First order of business is the hoses though. I dont detect the brake pedal sinking. I detect it just taking full range of motion to fully apply. My 420SEL's brake feel 10x better.

mak · #15 01-19-2011, 11:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JamesDean

Hirnbeiss,

My pedal is fairly soft, up until the final 1/4 worth of travel where it mostly engages the brakes. The first 3/4 really dont stop the car. Slow it down a little yes..The pedal kind of sinks thru the first 3/4 with ease..

With the size of the calipers on my car I feel it should really be stopping it by no more than 1/2 pedal travel. if that.

i replaced the MC on my 108 due to the sinking pedal ,turned out one of the front pipes was swelling up under pressure and causing the sinkage.firm pedal now
On 126 replacing the MC has not done the trick as has pressure bleeding the system.it is indeed soft in the first half .braking works well .
mak