Fuel System Contaminated -- Need some Input
 

Starting new thread to sum everything up and start fresh:
Original thread: http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/tech-help/285684-ideas-huge-mpg-drop-since-overheating.html

Problem:
-Used to get 21-22mpg, now get 12-13mpg
-Figured out rust in system, possible filter split.
-Replaced injectors about 100mi before found rust (possibly clogged?)
-Power is sluggish and seems to hit a wall with power @ ~4500rpm. It'll go higher, but it seems to just stop producing power and I can feel a possible knock (so I stopped).

Items replaced/done
-Fuel Tank flushed (have not removed though)
-Fuel Filter Replaced
-Fuel Distributor + EHA Brand New
-Ran pump into jar before putting new distrib in....No rust found. Gas was clean.

So now...

Pulled injectors and found some dirt...No way dirt should be there. I'm guessing before I found the rust, it contaminated the injectors.

This is what I found: (KEEP IN MIND, These injectors have < 100mi on them!! They are practically BRAND NEW)

http://www.w124-zone.com/downloads/p...ject-rust1.jpg

[1] -- SINCE they are practically brand new....anyway I can clean them successfully? I have put them in a bottle full of B2 Chemtool overnight....think it'll clean them enough or will I need to do more?
Is there a way to successfully backflush them? Since these are mechanical, is there a way to somehow open the nozzle?

http://www.w124-zone.com/downloads/p...ject-rust2.jpg

[2] -- Plan to flow test system at distributor (injectors disconnected, lines on) into plastic bottles to ensure a) double check no rust b) double check strainer is not blocked. Sound a good idea?

Any thoughts or ideas for approach to solve this? Car hasn't been driven in 9months....Just moved house to somewhere I can work on my car now, so time to get her back on the road!

I would drain fuel and filter it,with paint filter.

I was doing some more research and reading (in my Bosch Injection and Fuel Management book by Probst) and it mentions this:

Looks like I did it the wrong way a few months ago. I read it, but did it wrong anyways LOL. I just didn't think about it requiring force against the FPR. Live and learn!

I will redo the test -- Maybe its not the injectors then! (although they should be cleaned again now) Let's see what the fuel pump delivery test reveals now!

Since the car starts and idles perfectly, its just possible full load flow is hindered somewhere upstream (pumps or strainer), hence WOT power is lifeless and high end rpm gets a knock. Makes sense to me logically.

Flow tested injector line from distributor, did 3 videos as illustration...

MB specs:
Idle Speed: 3cm^3/min
Partial Load: 30cm^3/min
Full Load: 100cm^3/min

My readings: (each water bottle 10g, so 10g has already been subtracted from each number)
Idle // Partial // Load(WOT)
1: 21g // 83g // 98g
2: 21g // 85g // 98g
3: 21g // 84g // 100g
4: 21g // 84g // 100g
5: 22g // 85g // 98g
6: 21g // 83g // 94g

EDIT: Videos:
Idle: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NyqTNyl99ZQ
Partial: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWG4QWSsT2Q
Full: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uVQWB_LjYL8

Need help with converting....How can I convert since gasoline is not 1:1 grams to cm^3???
Density of gasoline is 0.68g/cm^3

EDIT2: Check my calculations here....but:
D=M/V
0.68g/cm^3 = 21g / V
...
V(0.68g/cm^3) = 21g
...
V = 21g/0.68g/cm^3)
V = 30cm^3
So that would give me:

Idle: 30cm^3
Partial: 125cm^3
Load: 147cm^3

So what exactly does that mean? Am I running heavily rich or are the factory specs a MINIMUM amount of fuel required?
If I am running rich, why would that be if my fuel pressures are within spec?
Kinda lost at this point now... :confused:

I wish I knew the answer for you. FWIW...I did replace both of my Fuel Pumps, Filter, and Accumulator at the same time and pressure was a lot stronger after letting it sit plus, when I opened my gas tank, it held more pressure than before after running and sitting where it would lose it after about 10min of sitting with no vacuum held in the tank. Now I struggle a bit to get the cap off. Has to be a simple answer there somewhere for ya...

I wonder if the crap is coming from the fuel distributor itself? I'd be more curious about solving the contamination problem before getting it running correctly. If it is too rich you can reset the mixture (test with on-off ratio or CO meter, on-off ratio being preferred). Are you sure it's rust, could it be rubber particles?

All I want to make sure is that I don't have a restriction upstream....if its just running rich I can tweak that.

I guess its probably time to put in my wideband o2 sensor in place of the OE Bosch unit so I can figure out whats going on.

In fact, it does actually look like rubber particles. Possible remnants from pump(s)/accum/fpr?

Maybe I can remove the fuel level gauge and peek into the tank and see if its okay or not.

----

EDIT: What is the possibility I am doing the test incorrect?
http://www.w124-zone.com/downloads/MB%20CD/W124/w124CD1/Program/Engine/103/07.3-1609.pdf
It mentions:
"Unscrew injection lines and fuel distributor, and slacken at the injection valves; unscrew if necessary".

Does that sound like the injectors are supposed to connected for the test, or disconnected?

Because then I read the OE Bosch Manual:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/3299223/Bosch-KJetronic-Fuel-Injection-Manual-#ad_unit=Doc_Sideboard_MediumRectangle_BTF_300x250&url=http%3A//www.scribd.com/doc/3299223/Bosch-KJetronic-Fuel-Injection-Manual-%23ad_unit%3DDoc_Sideboard_MediumRectangle_BTF_300x250%26url%3Dhttp%253A//www.scribd.com/doc/3299223/Bosch-KJetronic-Fuel-Injection-Manual-%2523ad_unit%253DDoc_Sideboard_MediumRectangle_BTF_300x250%2526url%253Dhttp%25253A//www.scribd.com/doc/3299223/Bosch-KJetronic-Fuel-Injection-Manual-%252523ad_unit%25253DDoc_Sideboard_MediumRectangle_BTF_300x250%252526url%25253Dhttp%2525253A//www.scribd.com/doc/3299223/Bosch-KJetronic-Fuel-Injection-Manual-%25252523ad_unit%2525253DDoc_Sideboard_MediumRectangle_BTF_300x250%25252526url%2525253Dhttp%25252525 3A//www.scribd.com/doc/3299223/Bosch-KJetronic-Fuel-Injection-Manual-%2525252523ad_unit%252525253DDoc_Sideboard_MediumRectangle_BTF_300x250%2525252526url%252525253Dhttp% 25252525253A//www.scribd.com/doc/3299223/Bosch-KJetronic-Fuel-Injection-Manual-%252525252523ad_unit%25252525253DDoc_Sideboard_MediumRectangle_BTF_300x250%252525252526url%252525252 53Dhttp%2525252525253A//www.scribd.com/doc/3299223/Bosch-KJetronic-Fuel-Injection-Manual-%25252525252523ad_unit%2525252525253DDoc_Sideboard_MediumRectangle_BTF_300x250%25252525252526url%252 5252525253Dhttp%252525252525253A//www.scribd.com/doc/3299223/Bosch-KJetronic-Fuel-Injection-Manual-%2525252525252523ad_unit%252525252525253DDoc_Sideboard_MediumRectangle_BTF_300x250%2525252525252526u rl%252525252525253Dhttp%25252525252525253A//www.scribd.com/doc/3299223/Bosch-KJetronic-Fuel-Injection-Manual-%2525252525252526attributes%252525252525253DQuantSegs%25252525252525253DD%2525252525252525252CT%2525 252525252525252C5518%2525252525252525252C5511%2525252525252525252C5510%2525252525252525252C5508%2525 252525252525252C5506%2525252525252525252C5501%2525252525252525252C5500%252525252525252526IABParent%2 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Page 41 shows the injectors are in-line with the meter, but I am not sure if its the same test or not :confused:

This morning I checked injector spray patterns, look good to me. All injectors are spraying like they should I believe.

Next I decided to turn the CO/Mixture screw counter-clockwise, as to lean up the mixture....then I flowed the injector lines again at WOT.....No difference! Weird?

Attached my fuel pressure gauges again. Pressures look to spec and its holding the 3.1bar with engine off, so accumulator is functioning.

Kinda lost on where to go :(

EDIT: So with this considered -- that brings the question, what regulates the fuel amount if the fuel pump is designed to pump more fuel than is actually needed?
Did some searching -- found this:

I wonder if the FPR is toast then although it is still keeping pressures at the specified 5.1 bar the system needs?

Just ran the fuel pump test at the fuel return off after the FPR...

http://www.w124-zone.com/downloads/p...p/pumptest.jpg

Did NOT get the specified 1L/40sec. I think first steps then are replacement strainer, then fuel pumps and possibly accumulator.

YouTube - &#x202a;M103 fuel pump test&#x202c;&rlm;

You definitely have some fuel in that bottle. How long did you run it to get that much? Very interesting!!! I guess they had to do something due to the mechanical fuel injection system. Will keep monitoring the post for your findings.

By the way, I took my car in today to the "Transmeister" here in So. Cal (only works on Mercedes) to fix my tranny pan leak and I asked him about MPG in these cars. He said the best he ever got out of one of his new 300E, many years ago, was 24 MPG when he drove to Vegas and kept it under 80mph. Otherwise he said 18 to 21 average is normal for the w124.

Tank has no rust in it at all which is great:

http://www.w124-zone.com/downloads/p...ank/tankr6.jpg

http://www.w124-zone.com/downloads/p...nk/tankr10.jpg

http://www.w124-zone.com/downloads/p...ank/tankr8.jpg

Got a new strainer + ordered every single hose in the fuel system -- so that should eliminate any possible swelling, cracking or inner rubber disintegration if there is any. I'm "hoping" the pumps are ok, its just the lines that have swelling causing a loss in volume and not pressure. It makes sense, but who knows.

Its pointless replacing parts until the lines are done.

A big thanks to Phil for finding 3 special order hoses. (FPR to return line, Feed line to distrib + return line to tank)

http://www.w124-zone.com/downloads/p...el%20lines.png

I just took all pumps and accumulator out...

One of the pumps still had some of the old brown gasoline that I was having issues with before....
Why would there still be bad gas stuck in the pump if I have been running it recently and everything has been coming out clean? :confused:
Could this indicate anything about pump condition?

http://www.w124-zone.com/downloads/p...ump/pumps1.jpg

Debating replacing them anyway, but its the cost that hurts...

The fuel system needs to be surgically clean. The tank should have been removed first thing when you had crud issues and hot tanked / sealed.

If there was old gas in one pump, it would be safe to assume that fresh gas wasn't going through it (at pressure, nonetheless). Replace the pump(s), before chasing any of those engine rubber hoses.

K.I.S.S principle applies here. :) ;)

Got all the hoses today in the mail and (2) brand new Bosch pumps on the way! I'm hoping by the end of next week everything should be back together and fingers crossed it will be normal again.

Can't wait! :)

My bet is it will be!

Ah crap...the EPC is incorrect on some hoses.

It looks like my car has the fuel cooler and the EPC didn't show it.

I need (2) hoses:
124 470 22 75
201 470 63 75

EPC states both are NLA....any ideas what I can do? :confused:

Shot an email to the mb classic center....maybe they can source it.

I'm thinking that these cooler lines are probably the ones if any that are toast on the inside. They are directly next to the heat, and this issue started right after my running hot incident. Think it makes sense that the excess heat and garbage gas we have out here with ethanol just took them over the edge?

I'm gonna take a closer look and see what size connectors they use -- maybe I can substitute in a similar hose with the same connector.

If I were to find something that works, would a difference in diameter make a difference since its just the return line?

Side question out of curiosity -- why is the fuel cooler attached to the low side of the A/C?

Have you posted pictures of the hoses?

Are you sure they are not available over here?

Can you make your own hoses?

They are pressed....Not sure if I could make them myself.

No pics yet, but I'll try and get some if I can get them off. They are hidden under the intake manifold.

There are shops that can make those hoses (they do a lot of hydraulic work). I just had to have mine repressed for my AC system due to a massive leak and they did it in a few hours. You can just take your old hoses into them and they will repress them and pressure test to new or put new fittings on.

Here's one I found in Tempe. Comoso, The Hose Authority...1320 S Priest Dr #107 Tempe, AZ 85281

(602) 437-8799

awesome! I'll take them off, give em a call and see what they can do.

I got the correct strainer and first fuel hose attached today....New filter, new check valves and the pumps are in (waiting for last pump, comes in tomorrow).

All hoses in place....

Now that the new one was fitting correctly, I decided to chop the old main fuel hose in two to look inside -- Looked brand new :(

Maybe I'll keep the K.I.S.S principle and forget about the fuel cooler lines for now.
One thing I did notice though was the check valves from the old pumps were still dirty inside too, both of them. Any chance check valves can get clogged or fail?

Pretty close now to finishing up.

I carb cleaned the accumulator and it came out clean both sides -- I'll leave it alone. Fuel was holding the 3.1bar pressure for over 30mins so functionally it checks out.

the fuel cooler does just that, cools the fuel returning to the tank. keeps the vapors down. good luck, chuck.

Looks like it was something not included in early 124's then? I have it though. Seems I don't need to worry about it then.

Will post back this weekend when the car is back together. Saturday is the big day!

Alright....DONE!

Car is running, drove it and power still sucks at the bottom end....

Bleh :(

Its gotta be a tweaking issue, I mean I've done everything minus accumulator and fuel pressure reg?

I ran the fuel pump test and got 1L in 30seconds. MUCH better than before. I'm getting an extra 1/3rd amount of fuel with the new fuel pumps.
Fuel pressures are on spec, fuel pressure holds 3.3bar when car is off.

Where should I go from here guys? Or is it possible I am looking in the wrong place here? Unless you've been following my threads, this all happened after a running hot issue. What about possible coil issue causing a lack of spark? Anyway to check the coil?

Found a spare coil in my box....No difference. So scratch that....

Back to drawing board. I'll start a new thread to compile all updates so far.