Service from He....

[dubadaddy]

My father-in-law is 92 years old and had been going to this guy for the last 25 years. This mechanic located in Temecula, CA was always working on his cars.

Question on a 1986 420SEL -

1) Was it unreasonable for him to charge my father-in-law $650 for an oil change, replacement of spark plugs, oil filter and fuel filter? Oh, and had to "idle adjust" which I am assuming is a fuel/ratio mixture adjustment to pass smog. The cost just seems really high. All including parts. Labor 5.4 hours. I was thinking about 3 hrs.

2) $950 for a transmission leak? Replacement of filter, gasket, front gasket and rear main seal. Labor 9 hrs.

I have researched the parts which seem to be high and because that part is high I am assuming overcharges on the labor but am unclear on the amount of labor that it took. When I called for my dad about the pricing the shop owner and mechanic told me "to bad, he already paid and we aren't giving any money back".

Of course we are not ever going back to this guy. Fast talker and my dad doesn't know anything about the cars.

Please post comments.

[Solid Snake]

Originally Posted by dubadaddy

My father-in-law is 92 years old and had been going to this guy for the last 25 years. This mechanic located in Temecula, CA was always working on his cars.

Question on a 1986 420SEL -

1) Was it unreasonable for him to charge my father-in-law $650 for an oil change, replacement of spark plugs, oil filter and fuel filter? Oh, and had to "idle adjust" which I am assuming is a fuel/ratio mixture adjustment to pass smog. The cost just seems really high. All including parts. Labor 5.4 hours. I was thinking about 3 hrs.

2) $950 for a transmission leak? Replacement of filter, gasket, front gasket and rear main seal. Labor 9 hrs.

I have researched the parts which seem to be high and because that part is high I am assuming overcharges on the labor but am unclear on the amount of labor that it took. When I called for my dad about the pricing the shop owner and mechanic told me "to bad, he already paid and we aren't giving any money back".

Of course we are not ever going back to this guy. Fast talker and my dad doesn't know anything about the cars.

Please post comments.

Outrageous pricing. Oil change runs about $100 bucks here for these cars. The remaining $550 for spark plugs and idle adjustment is just plain robbery. If it took them 5.4 hours to change the oil and spark plugs, then they aren't a competent shop!

[mbzman]

This shop has clearly taken advantage of him. Considering he has been going there for 25 years you think they would try to serve him better. Please advise us of the name of this shop so others can avoid it. I would go back and raise hell with them face to face.

[dubadaddy]

Name of shop is Franz Mercedes BMW and Repair in Temecula, California.

It's sad.

[Edward Wyatt]

The prices seem a bit high, but not outrageous. I imagine that the cost of doing business in over regulated California is quite high.

No matter the state, the shop has to PAY to dispose of the fuel filter, oil filter and oil. It also has to pay for uniforms, building lease/mortgage, shop equipment, tools, an Alldata type of service, shop supplies, rags, fender covers, electricity, phone service, payroll, workmans comp, and possibly health insurance. So the shop simply didn't make an obscene profit by charging 5.4 hrs to do an LOF service, fuel filter change, sparkplug change, and CO setup.

Changing the fuel filter on these cars wasn't a gravy job when they were new. Today with deteiorated fuel lines and hoses, the task must be done with the utmost care. I could see it being billed out as an hour of labor to be fair to the shop.

A proper service takes an hour to do on these cars, they also take a hair over two gallons of oil and a somewhat expensive filter. It's Mercedes, not a Kia. I can see an hour of labor there.

We are left with 2.4 hours of labor:

The man paid for the knowledge in addition to the above mentioned items. His car is fixed isn't it? Most shops wouldn't know how or have the equipment to set up a CIS fuel system. I assume the car was running poorly and that is why the plugs and fuel filter were changed. Consider yourself luck that they didn't condemn the $$$ plug wires and/or equally $$$ cap and rotor. Figure 1.4 hours to inspect the ignition system and replace parts as needed. Most euro shops use a scope before and after changes to make sure the secondary igntion is up snuff. How many of you shadetree guys have one of those in your garage?

A good shop would inspect the secondary ignition and replace parts as needed before moving on to a fuel mixture adjestment. That is what they did.

An hour of labor to set up the fuel injection is pretty fair, considering the car has to pass smog and should be done with a four gas analyzer that again, none of you shadetree guys own. They cost thousands of dollars.

I think the real issure here is about the economics of spending almost what the car is worth in repairs, not what the shop charged.

[dubadaddy]

Originally Posted by Edward Wyatt

The prices seem a bit high, but not outrageous. I imagine that the cost of doing business in over regulated California is quite high.

No matter the state, the shop has to PAY to dispose of the fuel filter, oil filter and oil. It also has to pay for uniforms, building lease/mortgage, shop equipment, tools, an Alldata type of service, shop supplies, rags, fender covers, electricity, phone service, payroll, workmans comp, and possibly health insurance. So the shop simply didn't make an obscene profit by charging 5.4 hrs to do an LOF service, fuel filter change, sparkplug change, and CO setup.

Changing the fuel filter on these cars wasn't a gravy job when they were new. Today with deteiorated fuel lines and hoses, the task must be done with the utmost care. I could see it being billed out as an hour of labor to be fair to the shop.

A proper service takes an hour to do on these cars, they also take a hair over two gallons of oil and a somewhat expensive filter. It's Mercedes, not a Kia. I can see an hour of labor there.

We are left with 2.4 hours of labor:

The man paid for the knowledge in addition to the above mentioned items. His car is fixed isn't it? Most shops wouldn't know how or have the equipment to set up a CIS fuel system. I assume the car was running poorly and that is why the plugs and fuel filter were changed. Consider yourself luck that they didn't condemn the $$$ plug wires and/or equally $$$ cap and rotor. Figure 1.4 hours to inspect the ignition system and replace parts as needed. Most euro shops use a scope before and after changes to make sure the secondary igntion is up snuff. How many of you shadetree guys have one of those in your garage?

A good shop would inspect the secondary ignition and replace parts as needed before moving on to a fuel mixture adjestment. That is what they did.

An hour of labor to set up the fuel injection is pretty fair, considering the car has to pass smog and should be done with a four gas analyzer that again, none of you shadetree guys own. They cost thousands of dollars.

I think the real issure here is about the economics of spending almost what the car is worth in repairs, not what the shop charged.

Sounds like this is coming from a mechanic in a shop. While I do believe in business for profit, I find it apolling that mechanics do this. I hoping that you guys do your homework and set up you cost plus overhead to arrive at a shop rate that works for you. Not just "guess" because of your expenses and thats what the guy down the street charges. So, I find it funny that you are saying these things.

A separate smog shop did the smog check (every two years in Calif.) and came up with a high idle situation. The shop told me he had to remove the throttle body to adjust the idle. What? I thought the idle is set by the computer.

It scares my to think you are using AllData when it should be based upon experience. All of us "shade tree" guys do our own work because we like it and do save money, in addition, to keeping guys like you honest.

Shame on you for thinking this is fair to a guy that has been coming to your shop for 25 years and now you think you can take advantage of him. How many other times did the shop over charge in that time??

[Edward Wyatt]

Originally Posted by dubadaddy

Sounds like this is coming from a mechanic in a shop. While I do believe in business for profit, I find it apolling that mechanics do this. I hoping that you guys do your homework and set up you cost plus overhead to arrive at a shop rate that works for you. Not just "guess" because of your expenses and thats what the guy down the street charges. So, I find it funny that you are saying these things.

A separate smog shop did the smog check (every two years in Calif.) and came up with a high idle situation. The shop told me he had to remove the throttle body to adjust the idle. What? I thought the idle is set by the computer.

It scares my to think you are using AllData when it should be based upon experience. All of us "shade tree" guys do our own work because we like it and do save money, in addition, to keeping guys like you honest.

Shame on you for thinking this is fair to a guy that has been coming to your shop for 25 years and now you think you can take advantage of him. How many other times did the shop over charge in that time??

Obviously you like to denigrate mechanics, it's obvious.

Not a mechanic, I own a shop and a parts store. What do you do for a living?

Experience does not mean that my guys can remember the head bolt torque specs on a M20 BMW motor, that's why we have AllData.

You obviously share your FIL's regret over spending too much money on a old clunker, next time you should have him ask for an estimate as required by law for repairs over $100.

I charge an hourly rate, and also use a labor guide to arrive at my labor charges. Just like the dealer or any other indy does. What you and others don't want to admit is that sometimes on an old car it takes longer than what the labor guide quotes for a job. For example, the fuel filter on a gas W126 takes much longer than when the car was new or else one can damage the other related components. Hence, I charge 1.0 hrs, if the customer doesn't like it they can go somewhere else.

I don't need to work on older cars and do it as a courtesy for established customers. Honestly, most people that drive an older MB have your penny pinching attitude and it's not good busness to deal with your kind.

Shame on me? Lol, shame on your FIL for not asking for an estimate. Sounds like his car was a good candidate for cash for clunkers.

Just because you can do repairs in your driveway doesn't mean you can dictate what a shop should charge based on how much a set of plugs cost at Wal-Mart and how long it took you to change them.

If you know so much about the auto repair industry, why didn't you do the work for him? Lol, because you don't have the proper tools and know how.

Go ahead and price out a four gas analyzer and a scope and get back to us.

[Edward Wyatt]

The idle speed is not adjustable on the car in question, if the idle speed is too high chances are that there is a vacuum leak. If the shop spent time chasing vacuum leak to fix the idle situation you have no leg to stand on.

Why don't you post a copy of the repair order instead of naming the shop in question. For all I know there is another side to this story. If the charges were so outrageous and unfair call your credit card company and your case hase merit they will do a chargeback.

I guess it's better to bash the shop in question without letting them defend themselves right?

[mbzman]

Originally Posted by Edward Wyatt

The prices seem a bit high, but not outrageous. I imagine that the cost of doing business in over regulated California is quite high.

No matter the state, the shop has to PAY to dispose of the fuel filter, oil filter and oil. It also has to pay for uniforms, building lease/mortgage, shop equipment, tools, an Alldata type of service, shop supplies, rags, fender covers, electricity, phone service, payroll, workmans comp, and possibly health insurance. So the shop simply didn't make an obscene profit by charging 5.4 hrs to do an LOF service, fuel filter change, sparkplug change, and CO setup.

Changing the fuel filter on these cars wasn't a gravy job when they were new. Today with deteiorated fuel lines and hoses, the task must be done with the utmost care. I could see it being billed out as an hour of labor to be fair to the shop.

A proper service takes an hour to do on these cars, they also take a hair over two gallons of oil and a somewhat expensive filter. It's Mercedes, not a Kia. I can see an hour of labor there.

We are left with 2.4 hours of labor:

The man paid for the knowledge in addition to the above mentioned items. His car is fixed isn't it? Most shops wouldn't know how or have the equipment to set up a CIS fuel system. I assume the car was running poorly and that is why the plugs and fuel filter were changed. Consider yourself luck that they didn't condemn the $$$ plug wires and/or equally $$$ cap and rotor. Figure 1.4 hours to inspect the ignition system and replace parts as needed. Most euro shops use a scope before and after changes to make sure the secondary igntion is up snuff. How many of you shadetree guys have one of those in your garage?

A good shop would inspect the secondary ignition and replace parts as needed before moving on to a fuel mixture adjestment. That is what they did.

An hour of labor to set up the fuel injection is pretty fair, considering the car has to pass smog and should be done with a four gas analyzer that again, none of you shadetree guys own. They cost thousands of dollars.

I think the real issure here is about the economics of spending almost what the car is worth in repairs, not what the shop charged.

I agree there are certain cost in operating a business but those costs of tools and equipment are usually paid over many times over at well established shops. Give me a break on justifying $650 dollars to change the oil, plugs and set the fuel mixture. An oil filter is $10, using dino oil should amount to about $30 and then maybe 30 minutes to have a look over the car. That kind of routine oil service and inspection at a good independent shop here usually runs between $80-$100. Add on the cost to set the mixture, replace the spark plugs and fuel filter and you would be looking at a bill for no more than $350-$400. Even if you take into account shop supplies/sundries, parts markup, enviro fee and taxes, $650 is GROSSLY overpriced.

[mbzman]

Originally Posted by Edward Wyatt

I guess it's better to bash the shop in question without letting them defend themselves right?

This is the age of the internet my friend. It is called freedom of speech. Time to wake up and smell the coffee...

[Edward Wyatt]

Originally Posted by mbzman

This is the age of the internet my friend. It is called freedom of speech. Time to wake up and smell the coffee...

You are 100% correct.

However, all we have here is third party information. Can you tell me what is meant by "idle adjust" on the repair order? I thought so.

I don't know what that means, it's simply obfuscation by the op.

Most of the posters on this thread are *****ing about the cost, yet we don't know what parts exactly are involved and what had to be done to fix the xar so it would pass smog. Only the shop and the vehicle owner know that, that's why I suggested posting a copy of the repair order. I won't hold my breath.

Next ask for an estimate or get your son in law to do the work.

[p7fan]

Need to see a copy of the ro. ALL DATA PRO (yes most use it), lists spark plug replacement at .8, fuel filter at .8, figure an oil change on euro .5, did they scope it (don't know figure .5), idle adjust (its electronic? figure another .5 to trace and repair vacuum leak maybe?) So we have 3.1 for an oil change and simple tune with adjustments.

Front pump seal on the trans gives 11.1 hrs, he also got a service kit and tailshaft seal. He was billed for 9.0hrs.

Seems like this is a wash.

Yes, it was an expensive repair on an older model vehicle. It would seem to me that if he has been a patron there for 25 yrs, there must be some level of trust.

I've been in this business for 25yrs.........you can either take care of your customers needs fairly and professionally, or hunt new customers constantly. I've found it much easier to take care of my existing customers; they tend to BREED!!

[Edward Wyatt]

The last fuel filter we did on a 2nd Gen W126 was interesting. Someone had lost the rubber buffer and the screw for the clamp. The filter was just hanging there by the fuel lines. The customer balked at paying $8.00 for a good used buffer and screw. To keep him and the car happy I just took it off the bill, I'm not greedy but it's only fair to charge a little more in labor when these cars are 25 years old and all the rusty hardware and whatnot. Kroil is not cheap. That's why I add an extra .2 hrs on cases like the above mentioned. My guy could have said nothing and simply buttoned the car up, but we don't work that way. .2 hours is a small price to pay for doing the job right.

Sounds like the son in law is the one taking umbrage at what the shop charged because most people would never spend $1600 on a car that's worth $2500 on a good day. I'm sure that the owner didn't ask for an estimate becasue there was a level of trust. He probably didn't even sign the ro when the car was dropped off.

In reality, the op correctly thinks that this was too much money to spend on an old car that may not pass smog the next time simply due to age and wear and tear. The shop charged a fair amount, all you shadetree guys should quit your whining and moaning. Like I said before, the car is fixed, right???

[Edward Wyatt]

Originally Posted by mbzman

. I would go back and raise hell with them face to face.

Good way to get a trespass warning, it's private property and the op isn't the owner of the vehicle in question.

[pawoSD]

Sounds about right to me. Oil change + spark plugs + mixture adjust is easily $600 in materials and labor at a shop. Heck just the materials for all of that is probably close to $125, fuel filter is not exactly easy to replace. Even around here the shops are around $105 an hour.

$950 is cheap for a series of seal replacements like that, thats a ton of labor. Anyone who has done those things on the transmission knows its a pain and time consuming to do properly.