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  #1  
Old 01-28-2012, 11:17 PM
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Does this sound like a head gasket?

95 E320, 140K. Never had a head gasket replacement. I am having some oil show up on the engine bottom cover and some drips on the gravel in my driveway. I can't tell that the oil level has changed. More concerning, the coolant resevoir was dry when I checked it today. My wife drives this car so she doesn't pay any attention to the guages. It runs just fine so I don't think she's overheated it. I filled the tank and it stays at the same level (so I assume I caught it about the time just the tank was dry, not the whole coolant system).
  • SOOOOO......where is my coolant? The oil on the dipstick looks like nice clean oil, not milky or anything which I would have assumed if the coolant was getting into the oil).
  • Is this typical of the M104 head gasket failure or should I be looking for something else wrong? I was under the impression I'd see oil in the coolant, not that I'd lose my coolant.
  • Can someone give me some pointers on what my problem is?

If the answers above are that I'm screwed, it is the head gasket, please read further.
  • Anyone care to give me a gut feel opinion on is the gasket repair a DIY job (assuming this is my problem)? I have read some write-ups but I'd like to hear from some folks that have actually done it and either been successful or had problems.
  • I have done most of my MB repairs on the E320 and my 300D but this would be by far the most invasive. I have a nice home shop to work in and an engine hoist but am hesitant to screw with my wife's daily driver. Am I nuts to try it?


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  #2  
Old 01-29-2012, 12:03 AM
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keep an eye on it. Could be lots of things. If you notice you are using water then ya, worry.

My car always uses a touch of water- then again I live in a hot climate.

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  #3  
Old 01-29-2012, 05:49 AM
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benmack1, the low coolant level indicator lamp on the dash should have illuminated before the coolant expansion tank was empty. I would check that the float switch is functional and that the indicator lamp illuminates when you turn the key to Position 1. Check your Owner's Manual if you're unfamiliar with these terms.

Presuming you're using MB coolant in your 1995 E320 a white residue will result at any leakage points in the cooling system. Check all hose connections at the expansion tank, radiator, auxiliary water pump and water pump, plus the water pump weep hole ... which will leak coolant if the seals are shot. If you need a new water pump it's best to buy a reconditioned water pump from your local MB dealer. The upper radiator hose connection can break off on older cars ... grab the upper radiator hose when the engine is cold and check that the connection is secure. If the hose connector is cracked best to buy a new Behr radiator.
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Old 01-29-2012, 07:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferdman View Post
benmack1, the low coolant level indicator lamp on the dash should have illuminated before the coolant expansion tank was empty. I would check that the float switch is functional and that the indicator lamp illuminates when you turn the key to Position 1. Check your Owner's Manual if you're unfamiliar with these terms.

Presuming you're using MB coolant in your 1995 E320 a white residue will result at any leakage points in the cooling system. Check all hose connections at the expansion tank, radiator, auxiliary water pump and water pump, plus the water pump weep hole ... which will leak coolant if the seals are shot. If you need a new water pump it's best to buy a reconditioned water pump from your local MB dealer. The upper radiator hose connection can break off on older cars ... grab the upper radiator hose when the engine is cold and check that the connection is secure. If the hose connector is cracked best to buy a new Behr radiator.
That's an excellent point in the coolant level indicator. It was NOT illuminated. Never thought about that, hmmm. That's frustrating at least I could avoid running dry if that worked. I'll check for other leaks. I was thinking overnight maybe I don't have the head gasket issue but a cooling system problem.
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  #5  
Old 01-29-2012, 08:07 AM
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I've got this job on one of these coming up in about a week. If it is the head gasket and if you have been competent with your repairs so far then yes, this is a good diy'er job. Go ahead and purchase the locking tool for the flywheel and use it if you decide to do the job. Makes the job a lot easier in my opinion. .

I have seen a rear main seal leak after having run the vehicle a little warmer than usual.

Sounds like time to get under there and look around.
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  #6  
Old 01-29-2012, 11:43 AM
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Update

I did some closer looking. It seems it's totally a water leak around the water pump area. From the underside, I can see water running down what looks like the PS mount area (water pump sits just above this). I can also see the white residue in that area from coolant leaking and then drying out.

So, what the deal with these things. Is it likely I would need a new pump or do these typically just have one or more O-ring failures? I did a little reading but can't surmise what I may be in for. I think I'll pull it apart next weekend and try to fix it. Any thoughts on water pump problems like this are appreciated. (seems much better than what I thought that being a head gasket).
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  #7  
Old 01-29-2012, 10:23 PM
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There aren't any O-Rings to replace except for the one that you put into the engine block when installing the water pump (which has you taking out the water pump anyway). I have a good working one from a new/used engine install that I swapped out thinking I had a water pump problem but didn't. It's good on the inside and bearing is solid. $60.00 if you want it (Mercedes Benz pump). I bought a new one, installed it, and discovered later that I had a plugged radiator. There is an easy DIY under resources in this forum. A new pump will run about $120.00 and up. It's probably leaking from that O-Ring (my daughter's was really bad and that is where I learned to do the job). You can't see it from below or above but it's wet there. Sound about right?
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Old 01-30-2012, 10:59 AM
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Originally Posted by sptt View Post
There aren't any O-Rings to replace except for the one that you put into the engine block when installing the water pump (which has you taking out the water pump anyway). I have a good working one from a new/used engine install that I swapped out thinking I had a water pump problem but didn't. It's good on the inside and bearing is solid. $60.00 if you want it (Mercedes Benz pump). I bought a new one, installed it, and discovered later that I had a plugged radiator. There is an easy DIY under resources in this forum. A new pump will run about $120.00 and up. It's probably leaking from that O-Ring (my daughter's was really bad and that is where I learned to do the job). You can't see it from below or above but it's wet there. Sound about right?

Yep, sounds about spot on for what I am observing. Thanks for the offer on the pump. I am going to take a crack at replacing the O-ring so doubt (and hope) I won't need a pump. Damn O-ring is 87 cents, shipping is 8 bucks and labor is probably a whole Saturday or worse as I almost always run into some kind of glitch - Ha!

From my reading, I gather these are the key points.

- I need some wobble extensions, preferrably a 1/4 inch variety.
- Get the belt loose (which means shroud is coming out to release the tensioner. Do I have to get the fan off to get the belt loose or anything else do with with this job??? (boy I hope not, had a time with that last time around working on my smog pump pulley bearing).
- Pull the bolts on the PS pump and move it over toward the firewall a bit but leave all fluid lines on the PS pump
- Pull the hoses off the water pump.
- Remove 4 bolts standing on head with wobble extensions and some luck from God
- Replace O-ring and reverse the order to button it all back up.

Is that about what to expect or am I oversimplifying stuff?
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  #9  
Old 01-30-2012, 11:08 AM
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benmack1, use an inspection mirror to check if coolant is leaking from the water pump weep hole. If so, you will need to replace the water pump. Be sure to use a new O-ring between the water pump and the block. Also, be sure that O-ring stays in place while you're maneuvering the water pump into place so you avoid disassembly and starting over.
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  #10  
Old 01-30-2012, 03:00 PM
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Yes! Gotta take the fan off and the belt. Do you have the tool to do that? It goes down behind the fan pulley and sticks in a hole locking it while you take out the bolt with an 8mm allen head. You can make one too with right size steel shafts. Overall it's a 3-6 hour job (depending on experience). Hardest thing for me is getting the damn fan off the fan clutch even with proper tool. With the right flex sockets, you can get the pump bolts off. Make sure you do remove the IAC valve bolts so it can be loose and that will help you attack the top back pump bolt. Use electrical tape on the wobble sockets flex points to stiffen them so you can easily get them on to the bolt heads. Once you do that, you are golden. Remove the bottom radiator hose so you can access the pulleys. Also, loosen all of the pulley bolts (waterpump and power steering ones) while belt is still on and tight. Loosen the big tensioner bolt between the wp and ps pulley before you touch the top 13mm brass adjuster or you'll ruin your tensioner ($$). Pay attention to the tensioner configuration when taking it out. Has to go back in the same way. Recommendation is to replace the water pump since you are going through all of this anyway just to replace a cheap o-ring but proceed at your own risk. It's just an o-ring you can pick up at a local auto parts store that sells the water pump as well. Let me know if you run into any dis-assembly issues. I've done this tear down and rebuild 6 times now. Got it down to 2.5 hours off and back on. First time took me a while.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf remove fan clutch.pdf (285.1 KB, 149 views)

Last edited by sptt; 01-30-2012 at 03:16 PM.
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  #11  
Old 01-30-2012, 03:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sptt View Post
Yes! Gotta take the fan off and the belt. Do you have the tool to do that? It goes down behind the fan pulley and sticks in a hole locking it while you take out the bolt with an 8mm allen head. You can make one too with right size steel shafts. Overall it's a 3-6 hour job (depending on experience). Hardest thing for me is getting the damn fan off the fan clutch even with proper tool. With the right flex sockets, you can get the pump bolts off. Make sure you do remove the IAC valve bolts so it can be loose and that will help you attack the top back pump bolt. Use electrical tape on the wobble sockets flex points to stiffen them so you can easily get them on to the bolt heads. Once you do that, you are golden. Remove the bottom radiator hose so you can access the pulleys. Also, loosen all of the pulley bolts (waterpump and power steering ones) while belt is still on and tight. Loosen the big tensioner bolt between the wp and ps pulley before you touch the top 13mm brass adjuster or you'll ruin your tensioner ($$). Pay attention to the tensioner configuration when taking it out. Has to go back in the same way. Recommendation is to replace the water pump since you are going through all of this anyway just to replace a cheap o-ring but proceed at your own risk. It's just an o-ring you can pick up at a local auto parts store that sells the water pump as well. Let me know if you run into any dis-assembly issues. I've done this tear down and rebuild 6 times now. Got it down to 2.5 hours off and back on. First time took me a while.

Thanks for the advice. I am not clear on the tensioner points you raised. I didn't even realize there was one in there. I guess I'll see what you mean when I get in there but any pics you might have would be great. I've got the maintenance service disks but those diagram drawings don't do things justice.

I've had that fan off one time before. I would really liked to have avoided that but it is what it is. Does anyone know where one can get the shortie socket to fit/remove the actual fan bolt. As I recall, my craftsman hex head sockets work but really put the ratchet up against the radiator, a low profile one would be the nuts!
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Old 01-30-2012, 04:31 PM
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benmack1, a 1995 E320 has the newer style drive belt tensioner without the brass tensioner rod on the earlier 124 cars. Simply put a socket on the center nut/bolt head and release the tension on the drive belt and slide it off a nearby pulley.

Use a 5mm allen wrench to remove the bolts securing the fan. A 5mm allen wrench (with the short end inserted in the pulley hole) will work in place of the special tool. A 8mm allen wrench with a short cheater bar will work to remove the viscous fan clutch ... but you probably can leave it in place when replacing the water pump. Although I've never replaced a water pump on a 1995 E320 you will likely need to loosen the power steering pump to access the water pump bolt heads and have enough room to remove the water pump. As sptt mentions you will learn a lot the first time you replace the water pump, and by the next time you'll likely have forgotten some of the shortcuts.
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  #13  
Old 01-30-2012, 05:43 PM
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My bad! I totally missed the year and make. Sorry. Maybe these will help!
Attached Files
File Type: pdf remove fan clutch.pdf (497.7 KB, 101 views)
File Type: pdf removing belt.pdf (314.7 KB, 96 views)
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  #14  
Old 01-30-2012, 08:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferdman View Post
benmack1, a 1995 E320 has the newer style drive belt tensioner without the brass tensioner rod on the earlier 124 cars. Simply put a socket on the center nut/bolt head and release the tension on the drive belt and slide it off a nearby pulley.

Use a 5mm allen wrench to remove the bolts securing the fan. A 5mm allen wrench (with the short end inserted in the pulley hole) will work in place of the special tool. A 8mm allen wrench with a short cheater bar will work to remove the viscous fan clutch ... but you probably can leave it in place when replacing the water pump. Although I've never replaced a water pump on a 1995 E320 you will likely need to loosen the power steering pump to access the water pump bolt heads and have enough room to remove the water pump. As sptt mentions you will learn a lot the first time you replace the water pump, and by the next time you'll likely have forgotten some of the shortcuts.

OK, I'm with you now. I've had the belt and fan off this car before and could have sworn it was the spring loaded tensioner like you describe. Hopefully I can avoid pulling the fan for this job. As I recall that was a PITA finding the hole behind the pulley to secure the thing. Thanks for the advice.

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