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  #1  
Old 02-07-2002, 11:35 PM
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Location: Plattakill, NY
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Manual transmission fluid

I have a Euro W126 with manual transmission (4 speed). I do not have the original manuals, but have a Haynes. It suggests using motor oil for the transmission. It also calls for like 2 qts (do not have it in front of me now, going by memory). This does not seem right. I want to use synthetic and was going to order some Red Line MTF that is all the rage on the Miata Forum. It of course would be much easier to go to auto zone and pick up some Mobil 1. Any suggestions about weights and volume? Thanks in advance.
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Currently
1991 Mazda Miata 174000
1991 Subaru 189,000 Winter beater

got rid of:
1984 VW Vanagon 195,000
1976 350SE Euro 185,000 KM
1973 280SE 4.5 (boy do I regret that)
1980 280SE European W126 4 speed manual (miss it)
1989 BMW 735iL 119000 (good riddance)
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  #2  
Old 02-08-2002, 08:34 AM
LarryBible
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I have run Mobil One, 10W30 in my manual 240D for probably about 350,000 miles with great success. The car has 533,000 miles and the transmission has never been taken apart and is still perfect.

Good luck,
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  #3  
Old 02-08-2002, 09:05 AM
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Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: Tucker, Ga USA
Posts: 12,153
The factory suggested fluid is ATF type "A". MB part number is 000-989-88-03, & is very $$$$. Many parts stores still stock the OLD type A.

I use Redline fluid type MTL in my race car.
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MERCEDES Benz Master Guild Technician (6 TIMES)
ASE Master Technician
Mercedes Benz Star Technician (2 times)
44 years foreign automotive repair
27 Years M.B. Shop foreman (dealer)
MB technical information Specialist (15 years)
190E 2.3 16V ITS SCCA race car (sold)
1986 190E 2.3 16V 2.5 (sold)
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  #4  
Old 02-08-2002, 10:16 AM
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M.B.DOC Thanks your correct as usual I checked again and it says ATF. Is there a "synthetic" that you would recommend or do you think there is any advantage? It shifts like a truck and is stiff.

Larry: Does the 240 call for motor oil? Or does it call for ATF? Glad you're having luck with your transmission. How is the shift action? is it stiff? I find the clutch to be quite stiff compared to all other hydraulic clutches I have used. Actually worse than a VW cable operated.
__________________
Currently
1991 Mazda Miata 174000
1991 Subaru 189,000 Winter beater

got rid of:
1984 VW Vanagon 195,000
1976 350SE Euro 185,000 KM
1973 280SE 4.5 (boy do I regret that)
1980 280SE European W126 4 speed manual (miss it)
1989 BMW 735iL 119000 (good riddance)
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  #5  
Old 02-08-2002, 06:51 PM
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Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: Tucker, Ga USA
Posts: 12,153
Redline products are all fully synthetic.
Suppose Mobil 1 ATF would be a good fluid that can be purchased almost anywhere.
__________________
MERCEDES Benz Master Guild Technician (6 TIMES)
ASE Master Technician
Mercedes Benz Star Technician (2 times)
44 years foreign automotive repair
27 Years M.B. Shop foreman (dealer)
MB technical information Specialist (15 years)
190E 2.3 16V ITS SCCA race car (sold)
1986 190E 2.3 16V 2.5 (sold)
Retired Moderator
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  #6  
Old 02-11-2002, 07:56 AM
LarryBible
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The 240D clutch and transmission are easy and smooth in all temperature.

I've never had an owners manual for my Euro 240D. I think I read in the manual for my US '77 240D that I had prior to the Euro that it was motor oil in the transmission. As MBDoc says, if you use ATF, use TYPE A. You can still find it. Modern ATF(Mercon) additive packages have changed drastically since your car was built. It may not be good for the seals.

Good luck,
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  #7  
Old 02-12-2002, 10:12 PM
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Location: Plattakill, NY
Posts: 137
This is what i got from Redline tech support. What do you think should I use MTL or D4ATF? Seems they recommend MTL generically to Mercedes manual transmissions. Thought it might be because not many were brought in recently and perhaps this is a newer transmission than what there specs are for. But then again it is a 1980 and it is hard to imagine it is to be considered "Newer"

>Hello,
>
>I have used your products in some of my cars. I have an European
>Mercedes 1980 280se that has a manual transmission and I am
>replacing the clutch. I want to change the fluid and was wondering
>what Redline fluid would be best. It calls for Type A automatic
>transmission fluid. I have also been advised that the Mercron
>additives are not kind to some older seals, especially in older
>transmissions and power steering. Any advice?

In the Mercedes manual transmissions, our guide calls for a low
viscosity gear oil and we would recommend the MTL. If your owners
manual is calling for a Type A Fluid, then the D4ATF would be
suitable. The Dexron/Mercon additives shouldn't be hard on the seals,
a Type A fluid is a Dexron predecessor.

Regards, Dave
Red Line Oil
__________________
Currently
1991 Mazda Miata 174000
1991 Subaru 189,000 Winter beater

got rid of:
1984 VW Vanagon 195,000
1976 350SE Euro 185,000 KM
1973 280SE 4.5 (boy do I regret that)
1980 280SE European W126 4 speed manual (miss it)
1989 BMW 735iL 119000 (good riddance)
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  #8  
Old 02-13-2002, 10:59 PM
dweller
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Posts: n/a
manny tranny fluid

Quote:
Originally posted by M.B.DOC
The factory suggested fluid is ATF type "A". MB part number is 000-989-88-03, & is very $$$$. Many parts stores still stock the OLD type A.

I use Redline fluid type MTL in my race car.
----------------
My owners manual definitely says "Engine Oil SAW 10W/20 W-20" for manual transmission fluid--1982 240D. Are you indicating that MB is now saying ATF type A instead?

Thanks,
Ron Dwelle
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  #9  
Old 02-14-2002, 08:54 AM
LarryBible
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If you're hung up on the RedLine products I'm sure the Manual Transmission Fluid they have will work fine.

This is not rocket science. Oil in a transmission does not collect contaminants as does oil in the engine. There is no combustion in the transmission (we always hope) so the particular oil is not critical as long as it is generally the right weight.

10W30, ATF type A, anything should be okay. I ran 10W30 Mobil One in my 240D manual with NO trouble whatsoever for over 300,000 miles.

The life of a manual transmission is much more dependent upon the skill of the driver than the particular lubricant that's poured into it. You want to get in the general viscosity range, but I expect you could put 10W30 weight, cheapest brand you can find, and it would work well, although since you only need to change it occasionally, Mobil One seems like a good investment. Worked for me.

Have a great day,
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  #10  
Old 02-14-2002, 12:14 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Saugus, CA USA
Posts: 1,989
Good timing for this thread

I'm due for changing my standard trans oil. I don't know what's in there, and before I've put diesel oil in the transmissions on my Peugeots. My brother gets Amsoil, would that be good?

Am I reading either ATF or motor oil will work?
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5 speed '91 190E 2.6 320,000 mi. (new car, fast, smooth as silk six, couldn't find any more Peugeots)
5 speed '85 Peugeot 505 2.5l Turbo Diesel 266,000 mi. (old car, fast for a diesel, had 2 others)
5 speed '01 Jetta V6 (new wifes car, pretty quick)
5 speed '85 Peugeot 505 2.2l Turbo Gas 197,000 mi. (wifes car, faster, sadly gone just short of 200k )
5 speed '83 Yamaha 750 Maxim 14,000 mi. (fastest)
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  #11  
Old 02-14-2002, 02:16 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Michigan
Posts: 74
Larry has some good points

Larry has some good points, but due to the long service intervals for transmissions & axles, I really like to use a good synthetic like Redline or Amsoil. I've seen Amsoil change an old BMW 635 CSi 5-speed manual transmission that was almost unshiftable in the Winter (until it warmed up), to a smooth shifter right out of the driveway. I will not be using Mobil 1 or Castrol Syntech any more due to information that I have been reading hear at the forum. Check out thread: oil additives
or
Pickup Truck Records One Million Miles on PennzoilŪ Motor Oil
for more info than you need on synthetic oils.
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Thanks,
Dave

1998 BMW 540i Sport
1995 E320
1992 400E
1989 BMW M3
1979 Triumph TR7 (1st car)
1986 BMW 735i (Sold)
1980 BMW 320i (Sold)
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  #12  
Old 02-14-2002, 04:49 PM
LarryBible
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Yes, I was surprised to find that Mobil One is not true synthetic, but I'm surprised that you would turn your back on it for that reason. Mobil One has been around for about 25 years or so now and is a proven, tried and true product. It's results that count and Mobil One delivers results.

I personally will not go away from Mobil One for such a reason. If the day comes when it is not providing good results, I will reevaluate at that time. I really don't care if it's made out of horse manure as long as it works, and Mobil One works.

My $0.02,
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  #13  
Old 02-14-2002, 05:19 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Michigan
Posts: 74
Mobil 1

Larry,

I agree that Mobil 1 is a tried & true product and has proven itself through results that are more than evident in this forum. I bought a product that was advertised to me as a synthetic oil, and I've recently come to find out that is not the case. They are misleading customers and I will not support that with my $. If as you say "I have turned my back on them" it is because they lied to me (or at least mislead me) about the contents of their product. There are other great true synthetics in their price range, and some more costly that I'll be happy to use.
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Thanks,
Dave

1998 BMW 540i Sport
1995 E320
1992 400E
1989 BMW M3
1979 Triumph TR7 (1st car)
1986 BMW 735i (Sold)
1980 BMW 320i (Sold)
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  #14  
Old 02-15-2002, 08:27 AM
LarryBible
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I really don't understand why you think that you've been lied to. The hydro crack process is a synthetic process. I think that you're splitting hairs. This whole idea of Mobil One not being synthetic might possibly be nothing more than idea of the marketing people for one of their competitors.

That said, the beautiful thing about our free enterprise society is that you can buy whatever you want for whatever reason you want. But, I would be careful that I'm not cutting off my nose just to spite my face. Good product, proven and at a reasonable price.

Each to his own.

Have a great day,
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  #15  
Old 02-15-2002, 08:52 AM
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<<
The hydro crack process is a synthetic process.
>>
In general, that is true. However, hydrocracking can produce either Group II or Group III base stocks. Larry, your favorite Delo 400 15W-40 uses Group II and they do not call it synthetic (Chevron is the largest producer of this type of base stocks). Penzzoil used Group II in its conventional oil lines and also do not call them synthetic. Castrol Syntec uses Group III (purchased from Chevron?) calls it synthetic. By the judge's ruling, it could be called synthetic.

<<
This whole idea of Mobil One not being synthetic might possibly be nothing more than idea of the marketing people for one of their competitors.
>>
I disagree here. Mobile 1 WAS NEVER a 100% synthetic because the 15 - 20% of the additive was dissolved in a dino carrier oil (full PAO synthetic oil cannot dissolve the additives). It was right on the Mobile 1 bottle of the old formulation.

The old Mobile 1 you used for 15 years did use a 100% synthetic base stock (PAO) and tests show it was an excellent oil and far better than other oils. The new "Tri-synthetic" mobile 1 is different and tests show it is not as good as the old (in relative terms due to the advance in oil technology) Mobile 1 and other oils are showing better results or closing the gaps.

Just to add another twist to this. Mobile Delvac 15W-40 was an excellent oil (on a par with Delo 400) as it used Group II base stock. Now Mobile has lowered its base stock by mixing Group I stock in it. I have compared all the numbers, and its pour point increases, Cold Cranking Viscosity is almost at the upper limit specified by API (6,000 cP and the API limit is 7,000 cP. Delo's is 3150 cP).

These are from my own research and readings from numbers off of the Mobile Website and also from some other oil sites. I am just a car enthusiast like you and actually hates Amsoil due to its marketing. I will probably never use it.

Do I use Mobile 1? Yes, but only when it is on sale at Wal-Mart for $17.88 per 5 qt jugs.
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