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  #1  
Old 06-05-2012, 01:23 PM
RamahX's Avatar
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Tie rod scrubbing rim

87 300SDL, pass side tie rod is hitting the inside rim. Seems to do it if I go down then up - like a dip in the road. Passenger front tire is cupped - wearing on outsides. Car has a light shake at 45-60 mph. Bought car like this.

Was thinking of replacing that tie rod, but trying to understand why it's hitting like that. Using channel locks that one is very squishy.

Before I go hog wild replacing things wanted to hit the forum up.
Tie rod scrubbing rim-imageuploadedbytapatalk1338916903.749406.jpg
Tie rod scrubbing rim-imageuploadedbytapatalk1338916965.075877.jpg

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Tie rod scrubbing rim-imageuploadedbytapatalk1338916876.254895.jpg  
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"Well, once again, we find that clowns and anarchy don't mix..." - The Tick
'94 E320 ~ Wikel
'87 300SDL ~ Frieda
'87 190E ~ Thurmond III
'84 944 ~ Schrickelgruber
'86 535i ~ Joerg
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  #2  
Old 06-05-2012, 01:32 PM
RamahX's Avatar
Ramah is in Israel ;-)
 
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Location: Dawsonville, GA
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Also, I can move tire side to side 3-9'oclock position. There is no movement top-bottom 12-6'oclock.

Some more background on car:
PO swapped rims to 16", and there are spacers on the front rims to move them out, maybe to keep from hitting the fender on sharp turns.

Car has been wrecked pass side with fender replacement. I do not see any evidence of frame damage especially to the control arm mounts etc on the body (but that doesn't mean there isn't.) not a lot of play if any on bushings or idler arm. I'm hoping it's just that tie rod ball joint being loose and allowing steering linkage to contact rim.

Also have question about rear camber on these cars, see pic... Back tires and drivers front are NOT wearing.
Tie rod scrubbing rim-imageuploadedbytapatalk1338917425.992012.jpg
__________________
"Well, once again, we find that clowns and anarchy don't mix..." - The Tick
'94 E320 ~ Wikel
'87 300SDL ~ Frieda
'87 190E ~ Thurmond III
'84 944 ~ Schrickelgruber
'86 535i ~ Joerg
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  #3  
Old 06-05-2012, 02:40 PM
Can't Know's Avatar
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Sounds like the PO (tried to) fit non-standard rims. Your tie-rod end may be damaged from scrubbing the wheel (if nothing else the resulting frictional heat would be bad), but replacing it won't fix the rubbing. The end of the tie rod is in a fixed position relative to the wheel.

Thicker spacers (and new lug bolts) or correct wheels is the actual fix.

It is *possible* that you have something bent that wasn't repaired in the accident, so it may be worth having a body shop look at it. But your reference to the wheels being changed (and that they already have a spacer) suggests otherwise.

Worn ball joints will give you play in the vertical plane (top to bottom, 12-6 o'clock), not side-to-side.

I'd probably start at a body shop, tell them what's going on, same as you did in this thread, and if they find nothing out-of position, then you know the next step.

Good luck.
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  #4  
Old 06-05-2012, 04:19 PM
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Location: Modesto CA
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Tie rod

Two possibilities based on your pics:

1. Wheel offset. The correct offset for that chassis is 25mm.
Offset is the distance from the centerline of the wheel to the hub
flange.

2. Bent steering arm. Compare the tie rod-to-wheel clearance on the
right to the clearance on the left. The clearance should be the
same (assuming wheels and spacers are identical side-to-side).
The steering arms should be mirror images of each other.
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  #5  
Old 06-05-2012, 11:09 PM
Yak Yak is offline
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The tire cupping and the rubbing would seem to indicate a wheel fitment problem and maybe an alignment and suspension problem. If the tie rod ball is so loose that it allows the tie rod end to move relative to the knuckle arm, then yeah, that needs replacing. If it's the knuckle arm that rubs, then it's a fitment problem and MAYBE an installation/repair problem if the knuckle moves relative to the rim on an intermittent basis.

You've got a few variables that complicate diagnosis: accident damage, tire wear, non-OE wheels, etc.

Check the offset on the wheel. It should be stamped ET on the inside. If there was an accident with some parts replaced you could have something odd like a mismatched wheel with a different ET. The spacers may not let the wheel get torqued in properly.

The cupping and the shimmy are probably related, but you've got to look at cause and effect.

I'd start with a check of the alignment. In your pic the camber on the pass front looks funny. Hard to say from a small pic, but your observation of front and rear may be valid: does the pass side look different from the driver's?
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  #6  
Old 06-05-2012, 11:36 PM
RamahX's Avatar
Ramah is in Israel ;-)
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Dawsonville, GA
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After reading the above answers I'm convinced that as a starting point I'd like to trade for correct 15" rims. So I assume from the above I need 15" rims with 25mm offset. whunter also agrees and stated going to bigger rims and spacers always presents/causes new problems. I'll also eliminate the spacers. Besides, I'm an original type...

Two: I'm replacing that tie rod with a Lemforder (sp?) one tomorrow so we'll see what that does. The current one doesn't match the drivers side (I know the DS is green) in that the tie rid is skinnier. Probably a shinto one. It's also loose and squishy, drag and DS are tight. Then take it to an alignment shop (or body).

As far as the camber the rear wheels are way in at the top, so I'll start there with spring shims and shocks.
__________________
"Well, once again, we find that clowns and anarchy don't mix..." - The Tick
'94 E320 ~ Wikel
'87 300SDL ~ Frieda
'87 190E ~ Thurmond III
'84 944 ~ Schrickelgruber
'86 535i ~ Joerg
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  #7  
Old 06-06-2012, 10:02 PM
RamahX's Avatar
Ramah is in Israel ;-)
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Dawsonville, GA
Posts: 90
Question, with the spacers what should I torque the front rims to? Right now i have them at 110nm.

I'll check both rim offsets tomorrow and also try the spare on the drivers side - its the correct 15" with spec tire. Will be looking at the steering arm. The current rim offset is 34mm... I have a WTT here and CL but i think I'll have to buy some stock 15"s outright : (

Learning as I go...
__________________
"Well, once again, we find that clowns and anarchy don't mix..." - The Tick
'94 E320 ~ Wikel
'87 300SDL ~ Frieda
'87 190E ~ Thurmond III
'84 944 ~ Schrickelgruber
'86 535i ~ Joerg
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  #8  
Old 06-07-2012, 08:34 PM
Yak Yak is offline
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I'd say the same torque should be used with spacers in place. Are the lug bolts long enough to properly connect through the spacers, too?

Having never used spacers I'd think that bolt length would be a consideration for safety and proper engagement.
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  #9  
Old 06-07-2012, 09:47 PM
RamahX's Avatar
Ramah is in Israel ;-)
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Dawsonville, GA
Posts: 90
Bolts are long and secure. Still trying to find correct rims. I think that will go a long way to solve some of this.
__________________
"Well, once again, we find that clowns and anarchy don't mix..." - The Tick
'94 E320 ~ Wikel
'87 300SDL ~ Frieda
'87 190E ~ Thurmond III
'84 944 ~ Schrickelgruber
'86 535i ~ Joerg
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  #10  
Old 06-07-2012, 10:16 PM
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I would change tie rod and do alignment before going after the wheels.

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