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  #1  
Old 11-19-2012, 11:54 AM
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Will M103 oil sump fit M104?

I'm in progress of fitting an M104 engine (E320) in a W114 Coupé. The sub-frame is the same as in a R107 and M104 with original oil sump will not fit the sub-frame.

Instead of cutting the sub-frame i would like to modify the sump. Anybody done something similar?

Since the sump gasket in M103 and M104 is the same, i wonder if the entire sump from 103 will fit 104?

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  #2  
Old 11-19-2012, 06:34 PM
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The only way to be sure is to look at part numbers or try the parts. Have a close look at the oil pickup tube as it might be different.
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  #3  
Old 11-25-2012, 05:57 AM
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Yes, the pick-up tube is longer in (some?) M104's. That needs to be modified as well.

However, since there are (at least?) three different designs on oil sumps for the M104 engine, I wonder if anybody has done any modifications in order to fit the engine in a R107 or W114 sub-frame? Or used one from M103.
Attached Thumbnails
Will M103 oil sump fit M104?-m104-oil-pan-r129-.jpeg   Will M103 oil sump fit M104?-m104-oil-sump-300-24v.-.jpeg   Will M103 oil sump fit M104?-m104-oil-sump-e320-.jpeg  
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  #4  
Old 11-25-2012, 06:06 AM
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No, the m103 sump is shorter than the m104.

You can bolt it on, but the timing cover has nothing to bolt to and will not seal.
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  #5  
Old 11-25-2012, 06:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carat 3.6 amg View Post
No, the m103 sump is shorter than the m104.

You can bolt it on, but the timing cover has nothing to bolt to and will not seal.
Clarifying info, thanks!
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  #6  
Old 11-25-2012, 06:26 AM
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Originally Posted by hismajestics View Post
Clarifying info, thanks!
No problem,

Also I think the bolt that holds the oil pump drive gear will try to eat through the m103 sump. I tried to put the m103 sump onto a c36 engine, but used the sump from a 300e-24 in the end.
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  #7  
Old 11-25-2012, 06:34 AM
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Originally Posted by carat 3.6 amg View Post
No problem,

Also I think the bolt that holds the oil pump drive gear will try to eat through the m103 sump. I tried to put the m103 sump onto a c36 engine, but used the sump from a 300e-24 in the end.
Brilliant! Any idea where the major differences are (w/M103) when it comes to crossmember clearance in R107/W114 sub-frame?
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  #8  
Old 11-25-2012, 06:58 AM
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Originally Posted by hismajestics View Post
Brilliant! Any idea where the major differences are (w/M103) when it comes to crossmember clearance in R107/W114 sub-frame?
Sorry, cant help you there.

Which part of the m104 sump dosent clear the subframe?
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98 w208 230 kompressor - m103 testbed SOLD.
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  #9  
Old 11-25-2012, 09:32 AM
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This is lots of great info I can use. I'm going to be installing a 97 E320 M104 in a 91 300 SL that used to have a 3.0 - 24 Valve so it looks like I'll have to retain the sump.

Where the posted pictures taken by hismajestics or were they from another web site?
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  #10  
Old 11-25-2012, 09:48 AM
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Have a look at this thread for SL engine swaps.

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/sl-forum/328287-sl-engine-transplant-possible.html
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  #11  
Old 11-25-2012, 12:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carat 3.6 amg View Post
Which part of the m104 sump dosent clear the subframe?
It interferes with the crossmember approx where the engine mounts are. You either need to modify the sub-frame or the sump.

M110 clears the sub-frame as does M103. Have not tried with 300-24v. sump, maybe that would work.
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Will M103 oil sump fit M104?-etupalkki-laikattu-ylha-lta-.jpg   Will M103 oil sump fit M104?-oilpans.jpg  
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  #12  
Old 11-25-2012, 12:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 97 SL320 View Post
This is lots of great info I can use. I'm going to be installing a 97 E320 M104 in a 91 300 SL that used to have a 3.0 - 24 Valve so it looks like I'll have to retain the sump.

Where the posted pictures taken by hismajestics or were they from another web site?
Sounds interesting, any particular reason upgrading to E320? HFM, turbo, supercharger...?

Pics are from German eBay.
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  #13  
Old 11-25-2012, 12:57 PM
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Don't forget to look into 603 and 606 oil pans. They both have the oil pump drive in the forward position like the 104, and share the oil pan bolt pattern like the other 6's. Since they are "forward drive" oil pumps you will be able to swap pumps with the pan to get the pickup in the right position, too.

FWIW, when I built a high volume high pressure pump for my turbo 103, I ended up grinding a little bit from the forward edge of my pan to clear the bolt on the gear. Depending on how much interference there is, there is a little fudge room.
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  #14  
Old 11-25-2012, 02:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by duxthe1 View Post
Don't forget to look into 603 and 606 oil pans. They both have the oil pump drive in the forward position like the 104, and share the oil pan bolt pattern like the other 6's. Since they are "forward drive" oil pumps you will be able to swap pumps with the pan to get the pickup in the right position, too.

FWIW, when I built a high volume high pressure pump for my turbo 103, I ended up grinding a little bit from the forward edge of my pan to clear the bolt on the gear. Depending on how much interference there is, there is a little fudge room.
OM603 with original oil sump does not fit. It needs at least the sub-frame mod as shown in the previous pic. I'm currently looking into the OM606 sump.

It may well be I need to do some sort of a modification anyway. Here's one from superturbo guys from Finland installing a OM606 in BMW.
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Will M103 oil sump fit M104?-om606-mod-bmw.jpg  
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  #15  
Old 11-25-2012, 02:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hismajestics View Post
Sounds interesting, any particular reason upgrading to E320? HFM, turbo, supercharger...?

Pics are from German eBay.
Thanks for the pic locations.

As for motor selection, my primary Mercedes is a 97 SL320 M104 ME 2.1 5 speed electronic shift 722.6 that I bought last year. A 97 E320 parts car popped up and was purchased as spare driveline for the 97 SL320.

I then came across a 91 300SL that is bad in all the right places. ( bad paint, shredded interior, bad transmission , but solid body.) The goal is to gut and cage the car for track days then build some sort of mildly turned up motor, test it in the 300SL then put it in the SL320. Stage 2 will be some sort of very turned up M104.

Stage 1 will be a long stroke crank, cyl head port cleanup and probably a small turbo or two. Injection / spark control must be compatible with the 97 SL320 as I'm looking for a drop in swap using stock ish electronics. The goal is to fill the gap from idle to 2500 RPM. I'd be real tempted to use M111 C230 / SLK Kompressor bits and a larger pump, I wonder why that does not seem to be very common as it would be a near bolt on.

Stage 2 would likely be a large turbo, big intercooler, aftermarket / tunable factory fuel / spark control.

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