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  #1  
Old 03-06-2002, 10:30 AM
Jim's500E's Avatar
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111 octane racing fuel

An ex-GP motorcycle racing dude has given me 20 gallons of the Super Blue Mist T-111 fuel. Question is, what would be a good mixing ratio for a V-8 and how will it effect the catalytic converter if run at extended periods with a mixture of say close to 100...or half and half.

I do run a mix of the junk in my Scirocco but the cat has been hollowed out and don't feel the need to do that to my 500E...since I don't plan on tracking it all that often.
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Last edited by Jim's500E; 03-06-2002 at 01:30 PM.
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Old 03-06-2002, 10:39 AM
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Octane is resistance to combustion, right?

Jim, I don't think that you will feel much difference between the 95 octane that you are currently running and the 111 octane racing fuel. The octane rating is the fuels ability to resist combustion, it is used in very high compression engines (over 11:1) to prevent pre-detonation in the cylinders. In other words its not the octane that makes the power, its the higher compression (that requires the higher octane to run properly) that makes the power. Let me know if I'm way off base here.
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Old 03-06-2002, 10:45 AM
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I agree. Past a certain point, you'll see no gains from higher octane. Can you advance the timing on your 500? If so, you might be able to take some advantage, but real gains will come from increasing the compression ratio. Add some pressure (turbo, supe) and then that 111 might come in handy...
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Old 03-06-2002, 10:59 AM
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Really? Wouldn't it burn cleaner with less waste products and provide some sort of gain, albeit not huge? I don't want to mess with timing or anything like that. I also don't want to ruin the cat...which I was told it would do in its 111 form. Would a higher than normal octane confuse the computer or would it compensate and adapt?

Thanx for your thoughts. Maybe I can use it in my lawnmower?
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Old 03-06-2002, 11:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jim's500E
Really? Wouldn't it burn cleaner with less waste products and provide some sort of gain, albeit not huge? I don't want to mess with timing or anything like that. I also don't want to ruin the cat...which I was told it would do in its 111 form. Would a higher than normal octane confuse the computer or would it compensate and adapt?

Thanx for yout thoughts.
Ruining the cat is a possibility. Also, your computer will compensate for lower octane, but not higher. It does not advance timing to the point of knocking, but retards it if detected.

Also, racing gas generally has no additives, and is not the best for street purpose cars, especially cars that serve "driving duty." Pump gas is better for your engine. One tank of racing gas might not hurt, but prolonged/continued use will not be a good idea.

If your car has no detonation on pump gas, you won't see a single hp adding that racing gas, even diluted. Too bad it can't be shipped. I've got a buddy with a turbo Miata set on kill that needs it...
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Old 03-06-2002, 11:22 AM
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One piece of info you may be interested in, and I'm not sure if it'll help but here goes-if you pull the LH module out of your CAN for a minute or so, then re-insert it, that resets the injection system and gives you the lowest fuel:air ratio-the computer then begins to lean itself out until the optimum mixture is achieved.
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  #7  
Old 03-06-2002, 12:57 PM
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Does it contain lead? If so, don't get it near your Mercedes.

As the others have described, you won't benefit from it unless you have raised the compression and advanced the timing to the point where you *need* it to avoid pre-detonation. It's all risk, no reward in your case.

Don't let it sit though. The hot stuff looses it's pop quickly. You could probably find a local racer or dirtbiker who would give you some $ for it.
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Old 03-06-2002, 01:22 PM
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Thanx y'all; glad I mentioned it here.

I certainly wouldn't run a vol tanken on pure 111 but thought maybe a mix would provide a cleaner, more responsive effect without harm to the associated components, not that I was expecting to break into a 12 sec 1/4 mile with the juice. I suppose its safe just not to do it at all in the 500E...

But I have no problem throwing it in the other bastardized ride I got. The sooner the motor goes in the 16V the sooner I can put in that Stage 3 1.8T motor in it...but that's best left to the VW forum.

OK...end of thread.
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Old 03-06-2002, 02:55 PM
Jackd
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Aside from some possible damage to the cat and maybe some damage to rubber seals in the fuel system, the 111 Octane will not give you any benefit. It does not burn cleaner, it does not have less or more contaminants in it. It is a pure waste. And I'd be afraid that this stuff might be contaminated, not knowing how/when/in what condition is has been transfert to a pail.
Too much of a good thing is nor necessarily better.
Think about washing your tires with surgical grade distilled water.
Would you see any benefit?

JackD
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  #10  
Old 03-06-2002, 03:40 PM
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I thought I capitualated and ended this thread...

I wouldn't run it full strength as I stated and the stuff comes in sealed 5 gallon cans with an MSDS sheet with its own plastic funnel built into the top. Most definitely cleaner than the gas you get out of the 20 year old rusting underground storage tanks at your local petrol station.

As for washing with distilled water...I bet you would see a difference, not major but...with less particulates and dissolved organic and inorganic constituents, the surfactants associated in the soap compounds would rinse off better because of less surface area for them to adhere to. The relation of hydrogen ions (pH) is also probably more nuetral and over time; the less of a degrading effect might be seen on the painted and/or rubber surfaces as compared to using a more domestic, acidic, treated water with chlorines, flourides and such, however, UV radiation over time may nulify any noticeable benefits gained by using a distilled water.
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  #11  
Old 03-06-2002, 03:53 PM
BlackE55
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Jim,

Since you started the thread, you can close it, but I think that would kill it. Not sure, maybe someone else would have a better idea.

Anyhow, it was a good question and I found the answers/comments enlightening.

I put racing fuel in my Olds 425 (385 hp, 10.5:1) and noticed a difference over 93 pump. I had to back off the timing a bit, but of course this was a carbureted, 34 yr. old car.
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Old 03-06-2002, 04:40 PM
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Smile Teddy Grahams, no dig on you comrade, you keep the thread going

That's cool Ted, my question was answered and I'm fine with not running it in the 500E. I'm happy to get the feedback I asked for but the 'your so stupid' *****-slappin' just pushes my buttons...(and since I was one of the US Geological Survey's Project Chiefs for the North American Water Quality Assessment (NAWQA), Phase 1 & 2, for the Connecticut River Basin here in New England during the mid-90's; equating gas to water was the wrong place to go).

There's gotta be some sort of,albeit little at best, benefit to running a higher octane, even mixed with reg. pump gas...just not as much as I had hoped or thought...I'm certainly no petroleum engineer but where I grew up...all the muscle car gear heads would fill up with 104 octane CAM2 on a friday nite and race down at the turnpike....guess there's no real benefit in these new fangled, computer controlled cars...which is OK by me.
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Last edited by Jim's500E; 03-06-2002 at 05:01 PM.
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  #13  
Old 03-06-2002, 06:18 PM
Jackd
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Jim, I'm sorry if you interpreted my comments as being a way to tell you your were ''so stupid''. That was not my intentions, far from it.
My reference to distilled water were simply meant to establish a parallel between ''two good stuf'' (111 octane/distilled water), both too good for the intended job.
JackD
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