2009 E350 Engine knock - Page 2 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

oldsinner111 · #16 10-29-2013, 10:50 AM

they have a dumb bunch in Kingsport Tennesse,so If your on interstate 81 push,or pull it to Knoxville.

amg280 · #17 11-04-2013, 11:25 PM

I 'managed' to get all the old parts back from the dealer that did the job this week, and needless to say, they are quite eye opening. I cant really say I agree with 'Mercedes' take that this is a "normal" noise, which is what they have brainwashed they're dealer network into telling the customers when they complain about the thumping noise on startups. 1 set of crank bearings (upper and lower set) are so scored, you cant run your finger nail across it without it getting stopped in the worn groove. I will let the pictures do the talking. I would like to hear what other member's opinion are on these. My engine had 42K on it when the dealer replaced them. It now has 43K and is still quiet (well, quieter). This engine was NOT beaten and had Mobil one 5W-40 (spec 229.5) oil changes every 6-7K. You be the judge.
If anyone wants any high res pics, PM me.

cheers

oldtrucker · #18 01-13-2015, 02:17 PM

How does the oil pressure gauge indicate at idle?

I would think that there is some major design flaw.
Either the oil delivery system can't built up oil pressure fast enough or the crank bearings are too lose.
That would be confirmed by at least one post.
At higher RPMS the oil pressure rises and all seems to be OK.

A simple test would be at next oil change to tell the guy's the heck with you I want SAE30 or something even thicker in it. The Higher viscosity would fill out the otherwise dry areas and the engine should not make the clonking noise.
Downside with higher viscosity oil, I see you maybe in New York, when it gets cold, the engine has to work harder to start up.
Just an idea, to nail it!
Afterwards, put the recommended oil back in or drive with the higher viscosity oil.
Don't know if they still sell "Prolong" I would be tempted to put that in. Lets face it, MB is not admitting to the screw up and ultimately you'll have to eat the repair cost.

NOTE:
The way dealerships work is simple. If the main office doesn't put out a recall / repair (fix), a problem doesn't exist at the dealerships. The dealer can't confirm, because the dealer would eat the cost of repair. It's that simple.
MB USA can't confirm either until MB Germany, with the OK of the Arabs of course, admits to a screw up!
Nobody wants to pay for the repair, so let the consumer pay for it, isn't that the way it always has been?

In return, Mercedes's image get's hosed. But who cares? They just don't sell as expensive anymore, the strategy is now, quantity, hurray, life is good.

Forgive me for saying this, but Hyundai and Kia (not quite at the same status) has become a better value than any of them high priced coaches.
If Mercedes keeps on going that way, (hate to say it, I am German) it will become just another Toyota.

johnflight1 · #19 01-17-2015, 07:18 PM

That 272 Engine is a real piece of work between this bearing problem and the balance shaft sprocket on the 2006 units! wow I have 80,000 now on my 2006 so I'm just waiting for the balance shaft to go bad

ILUVMILS · #20 01-19-2015, 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldtrucker

NOTE:
The way dealerships work is simple. If the main office doesn't put out a recall / repair (fix), a problem doesn't exist at the dealerships. The dealer can't confirm, because the dealer would eat the cost of repair. It's that simple

Not!

oldtrucker · #21 01-19-2015, 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ILUVMILS

Not!

Well, then I must be wrong and all the complaints about the dealerships are unfounded, since they happily fix every design flaw at their expense.
Actually, ILUVMILS said it himself. Only after the main office acknowledged and published a fix, it was repaired (although we don't know if it was completely free of charge). If main office wouldn't have done that, the noise would still be there.

Just an example, out of over 1000 reported bad wiring harnesses on the M104, there is just one case I know of that had been repaired at the dealers expense. Not even repaired, but the cost of the part was paid for by the dealer.
The rest of them were paid for by the customer / owner! And who knows how many bad harnesses are still out there.

Lets face it, nobody is starting a business just to exchange money or even give some away. But, if a flaw in design is detected, the least one could expect is an admittance.
The whole setup is so complex that nobody can be blamed for anything.
There is an exception of course. "Warranty" every new car owner hopes that something break's during that period.

ILUVMILS · #22 01-20-2015, 12:22 PM

The "main office" didn't acknowledge anything, they figured out how to fix it. Once the repair was verified the dealers were sent work instructions from the factory. Please re-read my post.

The reason it can take some time to sort out issues like this is simple. MB can't drop everything when one guy complains of an engine knock. Once they've received enough complaints though, they'll dedicate the necessary resources and do what's necessary to solve the problem. The one thing that most PP members won't be thrilled about is that they normally won't re-visit issues like these after the factory warranty has expired. They've been doing it this way for many years, longer than I've been aboard. Same goes for voluntary recall and service campaigns.

oldtrucker · #23 01-21-2015, 11:55 AM

ILUVMILS,
I for my part will close the subject of customer service for a high end priced Mercedes motor vehicle.
Perhaps, there was only one person that complaint about his engine, at your shop.
I admit, that sometimes something goes wrong in a production run and someone installs the wrong bearings, but this is rare in my experience.

Using the Internet as a research tool, reveals that there are many complaints about this issue. Unfortunately, they are not in tabular / statistical form, they are spread all over the internet!
The unresolved complaints I found, aren't limited to just the M272 but also in regards to other Mercedes models.

Although, it is nice to see that a shop, actually volunteered to repair a possible design flaw, but if your shop needed the main office to have a fix submitted, I just don't know about Automotive repair anymore.

To m.akasha,
if the oil pan can be removed without the removal of the engine (probably not, depends on the oil pump and cross members), sorry I never had a chance to look at this model, you may be able to exchange the shells from undeneath the vehicle. However, since you probably have to remove the crank shaft to gain access to the upper shells (bearings) there maybe a number of covers, timing chain (if there is one) seals and other supporting components, to be removed. This is much easier to do if the enngine is removed. Also, it is better during the re-assembly to have a clear look at the components to perform a clean repair. e.g. placement of seals, bearings seated correctly etc.

ILUVMILS · #24 01-21-2015, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m.akasha

Dear ILUVMILS
is it required to remove engine out to make this bearings replacements?
is it required to do lathing for the crankshaft to fix the bigger size bearing, or the bearing already there in the engine are not the proper ones?

Please help

Regards.

Yes the engine MUST be removed
No machine work is required
Hope this helps

ILUVMILS · #25 01-21-2015, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldtrucker

ILUVMILS,
I for my part will close the subject of customer service for a high end priced Mercedes motor vehicle.
Perhaps, there was only one person that complaint about his engine, at your shop.

On the other hand, using the Internet as a research tool reveals that there are many complaints about this issue. Unfortunately, they are not in tabular / statistical form, they are spread all over the internet!
The unresolved complaints I found, aren't limited to just the M272 but also in regards to other Mercedes models.

Although, it is nice to see that a shop is actually volunteer to repair a possible design flaw, but if your shop needed the main office to have a fix submitted, I just don't know about Automotive repair anymore.

FWIW, we had several dozen complaints about the M272 engine knock. all were resolved.

I can see why you would doubt the ability of a shop that requires technical assistance from the manufacturer but you can't see the entire room by looking thru the keyhole. Here's how it works in the real world. No dealership would attempt a repair of that magnitude and expense without seeking advice from MB. We knew it was a bottom-end knock, that was easy to figure out. The question is what to do about it. Maybe there's a crankshaft issue we're not aware of. Maybe an oil pressure glitch that won't show up on the gauge (yeah, we checked that first)It would be irresponsible of us to tear down a motor just to "have a look". Why didn't we just replace all the bottom-end bearings you're probably wondering? Without the critical piece of information about using bearings one size tighter we would have done a hell of a lot of work for nothing. Why didn't we try tighter bearings and see what happened? What if the motor blew up? Guess who's paying for that? Not MB I can promise you! So we gather as much information as possible and pass it on to MB technical. Let the engineers figure it out. That's right, the engineers. I'm not an engineer and I don't have an engineer in-house. If they say install tighter bearings and the motor blows up then it's their problem, not mine. Sorry, but I have to protect the company I work for as well as satisfy my clients. I hope this clears up any confusion

oldtrucker · #26 01-21-2015, 01:37 PM

Although, I was going to close this issue, I would like to say, I don't blame you or any other dealer for those things to happen. It's been a few years, about 45 since I was working commercially on motor vehicles in a Manufacturers contracted shop. Things most certainly have changed over the years, in both aspects, the manufacturing process and the repair procedure.
I had once a VW Golf, new of the lot. Two weeks later, (I put on a lot of miles in those days) my Air Conditioner didn't work. it just leaked somewhere. The dealer, passed me off saying it was over charged and they fixed it. Ten month later, 200 miles over the warranty, it failed again. The dealer kindly told me to fly a kite. I called the main office a few month later (didn't use the AC, winter months), after a little blah, blah, she offered to fill a die into the system. Then the dealer could find the leak. The car was 12 month on the road, (milage over limit)! So I ask and who is flipping the bill. I got the silent treatment and knew the answer. The problem was reported just 2 weeks after it got of the lot. Problem solved for everyone involved, except for me, I didn't get what I was promised. From then on either I pay big bucks for the repair or recharge every 6 month. Great service? This a very likely scenario in modern dealerships.

As to crank bearings, although it was rare, in my repair days, we would tear the engine apart and measure the crank and then the bearings (don't know if those tools are still available). Also, we would inspect them of wear or other abnormalies. If it was the cause of the clonk, we (the shop) would determine the bearing size and replace, do what was needed, so the customer would get the car back and could use it. The failed parts would be labeled stored and send back to the Factory.
But this is a long time ago, and as I know, things have changed in many ways.

My opinion about dealer repair shops(sorry), is such as to avoid them at any cost (the logo has to be paid for too), because of the complexity involved. Doesn't help me as a customer to garage my car because I have to wait for OK from the main office. If I drive the vehicle and it blows up, oh too bad, my fault. If you can, do it yourself. If you screw up (you better don't), the only one to blame is you, yourself, but the blame doesn't last very long.

So, no offense, I am very much aware of the changes that happened over the years. It's called "Optimization of profits" Profits alone aren't enough anymore, they have to be optimized... Someone higher up had that idea!

A friend of mine, paid a Mercedes dealership $1100.00 to get it smogged. Granted they replaced a plastic part and he has no idea what is underneath the hood.

Again, we are all just puppets on a string, we may know something but really can't do anything without asking big brother.
So, no offense.

oldtrucker · #27 01-21-2015, 02:03 PM

I am NOT a person that wants everything for free!
I just want to be treated fair! It is probably safe to say, that I am not alone...

Cheers,
Norbert

compress ignite · #28 09-24-2016, 05:40 PM

Bump

oda112 · #29 06-25-2017, 08:22 PM

Do you have any idea how expensive such a job would be? I think I have the same issue on my m273 engine. There's a knocking sound at idle ( you can only hear it from outside the car though, if you get close to the engine bay) and the whole engine vibrates slightly ( I just replaced the engine and tranny mounts so the vibration isn't coming from there).
Also, how long do you think I can drive the car like this without major issues possibly occuring?

compress ignite · #30 06-25-2017, 11:32 PM

Were not the M272 and M273 Twins of Another Sort on the Cam Issues and
Class action suit ?

Any MB making "Lower End Noises" should be compared to the Band on the
Titanic Playing as She slipped 'Neath The Waves of the North Atlantic...