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  #1  
Old 04-30-2002, 02:15 PM
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Correct OFFICIAL oil weight for '99 E300?????

I've searched high and low - owners manual, dealers, mb tech line. Nobody can give me a straight answer on what the official recommended oil weight is for my '99 E300 (606 engine) turbodiesel.
Clearly it must be a cg-4/ch-4 rated synthetic diesel oil, but nobody can tell me what the proper weight is. is it _w-30 or _w-40???? Please reply mb techs!! THanks,
Dave
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  #2  
Old 04-30-2002, 02:23 PM
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LightMan,
I have same car as you. Until MBUSA acknowledged that synthetic oil should be used, the dealer used Penzoil 15w40. After that I did my own oil changes using Mobil 1 synthetic 15w50-summer and 0w40 winters. Hope this helps.
Pat
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  #3  
Old 04-30-2002, 09:46 PM
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The proper viscosity to use depends on the ambient temps prevailing in your area at the time of the change, taking into account what the temps are likely to range during the life of the fill. There is a recommended lubricants chart that would have been in the owners packet when the car was new, this has a oil viscosity chart on it, consult this sheet.
Gilly
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  #4  
Old 05-01-2002, 08:43 AM
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MB recommends only synthetic oils for all 1998 & later cars.
There are only 11 different oils on this list of approved oils. The lightest oil is 5W-30 & the heaviest is 15W-50(Mobil-1). Also 5W-40, 0W-40, 5W-50, & 10W-40 are approved in ONLY the 11 brands listed.
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  #5  
Old 05-01-2002, 12:34 PM
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Thanks for the info all. I guess i'm going to live with the fact that nobody including mercedes has a specific recommendation for my 606 turbodiesel engine. To group it with the other gasoline engines is silly, as they have different oil needs. I guess what MB DOC has said is probably the closest to mercedes' recommendation that I'm going to get. I wish it were easy like the VW, on my tdi - its simple, 5w-40 CH-4 synthetic, PERIOD.

I was trying to decide between amsoil's series 3000 5w-30 and Mobil's Delvac 1 5w-40. Since the tdi runs on 5w-40, and the benz seems to have no preference as far as recommendations go, Delvac 1 it is.

I would highly recommend either of the two oils I've mentioned, as they are FAR and above the best two diesel oils out there. Something like Mobil 1 or Castrol Syntec doesn't even compare.

Thanks again.
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  #6  
Old 05-01-2002, 12:56 PM
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The "0W-40 Turbo Diesel" available in Germany (not available in the US) should be the perfect oil for the 606 diesel engines.

The "0W" and some "5W" are for marketing purpose only. For example, Mobil 1's 0W-40 is considerably THICKER than 10W-30 at 40 deg C. Yes, "0W" is thicker than "10W" at 40 deg C. This marketing gimmick started when someone says "most of the wear occurs at start-up". Then some clever oil marketer said let's call our 10W-40 or 12W-40 (that is really how the 0W-40 behaves) 0W-40 so people think thee is no wear at startup.

When comparing how thin and how thick an oil is, both numbers in front of and behind the "W" need to be looked at. "0W" is not necessarily thinner than "5W". It also depends on the second number (30 or 40, for example).

In the list MBDOC mentioned, the approved 5W-30 is NOT Mobil 1 (it is an oil made by Shell that is only available in Europe). Mobil 1 5W-30 and 10W-30 do not meet any of the current MB specs and MB specifically says they are NOT recommended in MB cars.

Last edited by loubapache; 05-01-2002 at 03:46 PM.
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  #7  
Old 05-01-2002, 07:22 PM
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I recently changed the oil in my 606 with liquivac topsider (only my fingers got oil on them from greasing up the O rings) and synthetic Rotella 5w-40. I had a hard time finding delvac-1 or any other CG-4 or CH-4 oil out there in any weight. The Rotella will be my 'go to' oil until I can upgrade.
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Old 05-01-2002, 07:56 PM
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There is one reported oil analysis result on a VW TDI at 5000 miles using Rotella T 5w-40. The results look pretty good.
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  #9  
Old 05-02-2002, 11:36 AM
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Thanks for the replies. While i'm positive that mobil 1 (in any grade) is NOT an acceptable diesel oil, I wasn't aware that its not approved for MB gassers....? Almost ALL of the dealerships use mobil1 for their oil changes.
For those fellow dieselers, its been widely recognized that Amsoils series 3000 or mobil's delvac 1 are far and above the leaders in synthetic diesel oils. Rotella or Delo simply aren't as high of quality, although both are way better than something CF like mobil1 or syncrap.

For those searching, it will be harder to find delvac 1. The easy answer is buy it online.I bought a case of 4 gallons for $82 at
www.avlube.com
and they were delivered that week to my door. Seems easier even than a trip to wal-mart(select wal-marts carry delvac1) Be sure not to get Delvac 1300 or anything other than Delvac 1.

I've previously been running the amsoil series 3k, however since my TDI uses 5w-40, i'm switching both to Delvac1. I had an oil analysis done on my 606 engine with 35k on the car, and 5700 miles on the oil. Results were pretty good, but the first analysis is only good for a baseline. Changed the oil at that point, so I can't wait to sample again at 5700, and 10,000. I'm guessing with delvac1 or amsoil that the correct drain interval is around 10k miles. Results are available on this forum if you search for my name and oil analysis. Pretty impressive filtration from the factory, after 5700 miles I had less than 1% soot.

PS Loudapache - an oil analysis at 5000 miles is relatively worthless, as the oil supplied from the factory varies, as well as the high level of wear metals present from break-in.
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  #10  
Old 05-02-2002, 11:54 AM
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<<
Thanks for the replies. While i'm positive that mobil 1 (in any grade) is NOT an acceptable diesel oil, I wasn't aware that its not approved for MB gassers....? Almost ALL of the dealerships use mobil1 for their oil changes.
>>
Mobil 1 15W-50 meets MB spec 229.1 and 0W-40 meets 229.1 and 229.3. 0W-30, 5W-30, and 10W-30 do not meet MB specs. So it depends on which Mobil 1.


<<
PS Loudapache - an oil analysis at 5000 miles is relatively worthless, as the oil supplied from the factory varies, as well as the high level of wear metals present from break-in.
>>
This is an analysis with 5000 miles on the oil not the engine. The engine has 10kmi on it so the owner must have changed out the factory oil at the 5kmi mark to Rotellat T 5W-40.
http://forums.tdiclub.com/NonCGI/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=5;t=004276

Last edited by loubapache; 05-02-2002 at 12:00 PM.
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  #11  
Old 05-02-2002, 12:02 PM
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Whether or not it's approved or recommended by mb 229.whatever, if its not ch-4, its not an acceptable oil for diesels. You are probably correct in your statement about the 15-40 being acceptable for gassers.

As far as the tdi goes, most experts agree, even the 10,000 mile oil change isn't a very good measure of the TDI engine. Most would agree the first oil analysis that will be worthwhile for data purposes would be the 20,000 mile oil change (the 10k between 10 and 20k). VW's oil change intervals are 5,10,20,30 and so on. The 5 and 10 are simply skewed by the break in wear metals, and the change in oil type etc. THe best judges would be a 20 and 30k samples. I'm not saying synthetic rotella t is a bad oil by any means, just that at 10k its not a good measure of the engine or oil's performance. Especially since the person sampled at 5k and the recommended interval that will be followed most likely is 10k changes.
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Old 05-02-2002, 11:13 PM
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OK, I'm at work, here is your official answer.
On the vicosity grade, you need to look at the chart in this booklet (S-0473-00N, Factory Approved Service Products, October 2000). For all temps (above 86 F air temp and below -13 F air temp, the following viscosities are approved:
0W30, 5W30, 0W40, 5W40, and 5W50.
For temps no lower than -4 F, but up to and above 86 F, the following viscosities are approved:
10W30, 10W40, 10W50, and 10W60.
For temps no lower than 5 F, but up to and above 86 F, the following viscosities are approved:
15W40 and 15W50.
For temps no lower than 23 F, but up to and above 86F, the following viscosities are approved:
20W40 and 20W50.
There is a note stating:
"Select oil viscosity according to the lowest air temperature expected before the next oil change".
So there you have it, as official as can be.
Gilly

Last edited by Gilly; 05-02-2002 at 11:26 PM.
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  #13  
Old 05-03-2002, 12:19 PM
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Cool, finally! Thanks Gilly. However if those were true recommendations, wouldn't the majority of the country be using 20w-40 or 50 for the majority of the year, when it doesn't get below 23?? It only gets below 23 in cleveland a few days a year, and we have crap for weather. If these recommendations are correct, why did the MB dealer in Ft Lauderdale put 10w-30 in my car? Not trying to dispute your list of recommendations, just trying to interpret them in their practical use. I think they've pointed me in the right direction tho. Most likley in florida, i'll be using the 5w-40 instead of the 5w-30. I usually only see 20w-50 in racing oil formulations. Can you shed any light gilly?

Also, are there any specific notations in your list/manual that denote diesel specific recommendations? I'd be surprised if MB overlooked the slightly different needs of diesels. Thanks again, we're getting somewhere!
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  #14  
Old 05-03-2002, 12:32 PM
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LightMan:

For your FSS car, MB issued a new approved oil list AFTER the list Gilly mentioned. The new list is to be followed on all FSS cars and recommended on all other MB cars.

MB had problems with the FSS long drain intervals using the oils from the old list so they ask dealers and customers to follow the new list.

MB uses Mobil 1 "0W-40 Turbo Diesel" in their diesel engines. This oil did not come to the US as very few 98 and 99 E300Ds were sold here. So back to your original question and my original answer a few posts ago, "Mobil 1 0W-40 Turbo Diesel" is the OFFICIAL oil for MB diesels (that is what they use in the factory to fill new diesel engines).
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  #15  
Old 05-03-2002, 01:17 PM
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Pat201:

MB uses a interesting rating system of their own. They have a footnote in the latest oil list that using the ACEA or API ratings "only if MB sheet 229.1 or 229.3 is not available".

So they go by their own rating system and the most current ones are 229.1 (regular drain interval) and 229.3 (extended drain interval).

Your Mobil 1 15W-50 is one of the approved oils in the latest list and it meets 229.1 so it can be used in regular drain interval in all MB cars, gas or diesel, according to MB.

Mobil 1 0W-40 meets 229.3.

P.S. Just noticed my reply was listed before pat201's post.

Last edited by loubapache; 05-03-2002 at 01:26 PM.
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Old 05-03-2002, 01:17 PM
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